#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2010-04-05

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:06] * Martix (~Martix@gw-unart.inext.cz) has joined #touchbook
[0:08] <Meizirkki> Wahahaha new offline batterylife record coming it seems
[0:09] <Meizirkki> so far 25 hours and 11 minutes
[0:09] <Meizirkki> though, including only 3.5 hours of potential use
[0:10] <drantin> heh, now try with the wifi usb dongle completely unplugged
[0:10] <drantin> and the bluetooth one
[0:10] <Meizirkki> they are
[0:10] <Meizirkki> :)
[0:11] <drantin> hmm... i have a usb-ethernet dongle i could try...
[0:12] <Meizirkki> It really surprised me that my TB was still on this morning...
[0:28] * MMlosh (~MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:3df5:800b:3ca1:500a) has joined #touchbook
[0:54] <Martix> Meizirkki: what about suspend or another power managment?
[0:57] * Meizirkki think ARM needs no suspend
[0:58] <Meizirkki> but I hope power management is included in the next kernel version
[1:05] <Meizirkki> another hour gone, i can hardly believe this :P
[1:07] * Noume (~Noone@e183143084.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #touchbook
[1:07] <Noume> "RAPE ME!!"
[1:07] <drantin> hm... i'm really interested if there's a significant advantage with the wifi enabled, but the bluetooth dongle taken out... i'd guess no... but if there was...
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[1:18] <Meizirkki> it died now
[1:20] <gregoiregentil> so 26 hours and 20 minutes, that's not enough for you?
[1:21] <drantin> not until we can go a full week!
[1:21] <drantin> with an active ssh connection the entire time!
[1:21] <Meizirkki> not enough ?? no it isn't
[1:21] <Meizirkki> It could run for days
[1:22] <Meizirkki> well..
[1:22] <Meizirkki> I am satisfied
[1:22] <Meizirkki> :)
[1:23] <Meizirkki> But 26.5 hours is not the bast TB can do :)
[1:23] <Meizirkki> best*
[1:24] * Meizirkki goes post the new record at forums =>
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[4:15] <leinir> gregoiregentil: Ping, did you see my message yesterday about the ballooning battery? :)
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[4:41] <Martix_> leinir: ballooning battery?
[4:48] * Martix_ is now known as Martix__
[4:48] * Martix__ is now known as Martix_
[4:52] <DJWillis> leinir: to much juice into the batt?, if it warps for pitys sake dont use it, not nice at all if a batt goes pop (done it a few times).
[5:00] <leinir> DJWillis: Nope, it's been sitting on the side, unused, for a couple of weeks
[5:00] <DJWillis> good ;)
[5:01] <leinir> i go to pick it up (as i'm packing up to go back to Denmark) and notice that the lid on the top has popped off in one side... and that this was why -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/49031477@N00/4489595442/
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[7:53] * adnyxo (~aaron@adsl-065-013-002-216.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #touchbook
[7:53] <adnyxo> hello
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[9:32] <adnyxo> anything going on lately
[9:36] * mammique (~mammique@AMontsouris-159-1-109-198.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #touchbook
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[10:02] <Martix_> here is support for 720p video DSP decoding on Beagle Board: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/node/47
[10:02] <adnyxo> awesome
[10:02] <Martix_> perhaps will work on Touch Book, too
[10:02] <Martix_> with patches http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Booting_Touch_Book_with_Beagleaboard_Angstrom_stuff
[10:07] * robclark (~robclark@nat/ti/x-kyrobnukvlgckrst) has joined #touchbook
[10:08] <adnyxo> theres only one improvement i would make to the touchbook, and that is a capacitive touch screen
[10:09] <leinir> and that would be one "improvement" which makes it instantly useless to me
[10:09] <leinir> no stylus, no purchase
[10:09] <leinir> And the hybrid screens are still too expensive
[10:10] <dpb> what's "Beagleaboard"? :P
[10:11] <adnyxo> leinir, there are styli for capcative screens
[10:12] <leinir> adnyxo: Sure, but that doesn't make them precise
[10:12] * shiznebit (~shiznebit@georg-pc.poly.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:12] <adnyxo> http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/b8dd/?cpg=froogle
[10:12] <adnyxo> well i find capcitive screens easier to use and more responsive
[10:13] <adnyxo> at least on the devices ive used
[10:13] <adnyxo> part of it could be the interface
[10:13] * phcoder (~phcoder@17-153.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #touchbook
[10:15] <Martix_> dpb: Touch Book's motherboard
[10:15] <drantin> or, what the motherboard is based on
[10:15] * tommd (~Thomas_Du@65-102-40-74.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:15] <adnyxo> is usb video out working yet?
[10:16] <leinir> adnyxo: More responsive, but much less precise
[10:16] <adnyxo> true
[10:16] <Martix_> LED backlight would be better
[10:16] <adnyxo> but for android and other interfaces built for it it works better
[10:17] <leinir> Martix_: Yes :)
[10:17] <mongrelcat> just because your targets need to be 36x36 doesn't mean it's less precise - it just means you need to design finger-friendly interfaces
[10:17] * Dutchman (~Dutchman@ip4da4f534.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #touchbook
[10:18] <adnyxo> thats what i mean
[10:18] <mongrelcat> yeah - I'm agreeing with you
[10:18] <Martix_> Illume with Elementary :-)
[10:19] <leinir> i just like to point out that this is not a very free-to-hack device friendly attitude...
[10:19] <leinir> To put it like that - have you ever tried Monkey Island on an iPhone?
[10:19] <adnyxo> what do you mean?
[10:19] <adnyxo> no
[10:20] <adnyxo> what do you mean by "its not friendly"
[10:21] * robclark (~robclark@nat/ti/x-kyrobnukvlgckrst) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[10:21] <leinir> That it's an attitude which indicates that you are more important than the ability to hack the device ;)
[10:21] <mongrelcat> if you're saying capacitive touch devices are less hacker-friendly, that's ridiculous
[10:22] <leinir> mongrelcat: It's the mind-set behind them. They force you to write finger-friendly interfaces, and while this may seem on the surface as a good idea, there's a very big set of somewhat inconvenient stigmas that follow that way of thinking
[10:22] <adnyxo> im still not sure i understand
[10:23] <mongrelcat> that's retarded
[10:23] <adnyxo> ah i see
[10:23] <leinir> Consumer-friendly devices are all well and good, but that is not what i'm here for - the people who designed the N900 understood this
[10:23] <adnyxo> but what if i dont want to use a stylus?
[10:23] <mongrelcat> geeks don't always want hard-to-use devices
[10:23] <adnyxo> arent you restricting us
[10:23] <mongrelcat> I have an N900 and love it, but that doesn't mean I like resistive touchscreens
[10:23] <adnyxo> with capcitive you can use both,
[10:24] * alden (~alden@ Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[10:25] <adnyxo> maybe the screen on the tb is better than the ones ive used
[10:25] <mongrelcat> finger-friendly doesn't just mean consumer-friendly
[10:25] <mongrelcat> I think android is a perfect example of that
[10:25] <adnyxo> but i find capcitive screens much easier to use then their resistive counterparts
[10:25] <adnyxo> yea
[10:25] <leinir> mongrelcat: No, finger-friendly's all nice and stuff - the problem i have with capacitative screens is that finger-unfriendly UIs are /useless/ on them
[10:25] <mongrelcat> there are hacked disros that are geeky as steve wozniak at a star trek convention, but they're still easy to use
[10:25] <adnyxo> im also a big proponent of android
[10:26] <mongrelcat> well, there's a simple solution to that leinir :P
[10:26] <leinir> mongrelcat: If the solution is one of "don't use that app" or "rewrite the ui completely", neither are particularly helpful :P
[10:26] <leinir> And that is the point i was making with hacker-friendly
[10:27] <adnyxo> finger friendly uis are also stylus friendly
[10:27] <leinir> adnyxo: Yes - the problem is the other way around
[10:27] <adnyxo> so youre saying hackers want finger unfriendly uis
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[10:27] <adnyxo> ?\
[10:28] <leinir> No, i'm saying the option to be able to use a finger-unfriendly ui has to be there for me to care even the slightest bit about a device
[10:28] <adnyxo> http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/UbuntuOnTheTouchBook#5400698999001740962
[10:28] <adnyxo> merzi
[10:28] <adnyxo> Meizirkki, looks awesome
[10:28] * Dutchman (~Dutchman@ip4da4f534.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[10:28] <leinir> While i personally greatly enjoy the finger-friendly ui on the N900 and suchlike, i want to be able to use the odd app that doesn't work if you don't have pixel precision
[10:28] <adnyxo> i think i see your point leinir
[10:29] <adnyxo> since some nice uis are not yet finger friendly
[10:29] <leinir> *nods* Exactly
[10:29] <adnyxo> we need to compensate for that with the hardware
[10:29] <adnyxo> im still not sure how that applies to hackers though
[10:30] <leinir> Well, i'd not really expect my mum to go out and try and use the gimp on her phone, for example... but i know a good few hackers who might want to (maybe not the gimp, but you know, just to make the point)
[10:30] * MMlosh defends resistive touchscreens
[10:31] <Meizirkki> adnyxo, thanks
[10:31] <adnyxo> i understand now leinir
[10:31] <mongrelcat> yeah, that makes more sense
[10:31] <adnyxo> that makes sense
[10:31] <Martix_> let's invent inductive screens :-P
[10:32] <adnyxo> it does sacrifice some ease of use for more functionality
[10:32] <adnyxo> which i think is why you say its a hacker thing
[10:32] <leinir> *nods* Yup :)
[10:32] * robclark (~robclark@nat/ti/x-ppijokljcevpodld) has joined #touchbook
[10:32] <adnyxo> it would be nice if there were two options
[10:33] <adnyxo> but im still going to be buying this just as soon as i have the cash
[10:33] <leinir> Well, really i'd like a hybrid screen - but they're still way too expensive
[10:33] <leinir> Wacom made one, though, which is... very interesting :)
[10:33] <leinir> A proper tablet, plus multitouch... /then/ i'm interested :)
[10:33] <mongrelcat> yeah they talk about capacitive-resistive panels in the 10GUI video
[10:34] <leinir> mongrelcat: *nods* that's quite interesting :)
[10:34] <leinir> But, until such time as they're generally available, i'll stick with ressistive, thankyouverymuch ;)
[10:34] <adnyxo> yea
[10:34] <adnyxo> but im happy about the price point of the tb
[10:34] <adnyxo> thats part of why im getting it instead of the joojoo
[10:34] <adnyxo> the openness of the os and hardware is the other reason
[10:35] <mongrelcat> speaking of the N900, by the way, I'm totally jazzed about the n900 overclocking
[10:35] <leinir> *nods* :)
[10:35] <adnyxo> i do like to think of myself as a hacker of sorts
[10:35] <leinir> mongrelcat: *giggles* i'm somewhat scared about that, really ;
[10:35] <leinir> ;)
[10:35] <adnyxo> yea i saw that on engadget
[10:35] <adnyxo> i would be a little worried though
[10:35] <adnyxo> wouldnt want to melt down my droid
[10:35] <mongrelcat> yeah I'll be putting my sim in my other phone while I test it out :P
[10:35] <adnyxo> but idk about you n900 users :)
[10:36] <mongrelcat> I know someone who overclocked his pre
[10:36] <adnyxo> and?
[10:36] <mongrelcat> he says it's awesome
[10:36] <adnyxo> oh
[10:36] <leinir> i think i'll just... not ;)
[10:36] <adnyxo> i thought i sensed a horror story coming on
[10:36] <adnyxo> speaking of which, how about overclocking the tb?
[10:36] <mongrelcat> no he said it was pretty point-and-click
[10:37] <leinir> Well, the guy who clocked their n900 to 1GHz reported that everything was a million times smoother... still, sounds pretty scary ;)
[10:38] <mongrelcat> i'm worried about battery life - the battery life on the n900 is pretty brutal even under normal circumstances
[10:38] <Meizirkki> The cpu is turned off most the time anyway..
[10:38] <Meizirkki> it shouldn'
[10:38] <Meizirkki> t make a big different i think
[10:39] <mongrelcat> true
[10:39] <mongrelcat> and re: touchbook overclocking, I don't know anything specific
[10:39] <adnyxo> unless you run applications constantly
[10:39] <Meizirkki> TouchBook overclocking, do want
[10:39] <mongrelcat> I know that texas instruments says that the main core and the dsp can safely be run at speeds higher than the ones they ship at i don't know anything
[10:40] <adnyxo> else
[10:40] <mongrelcat> *but other than that, I don't know anything
[10:40] <leinir> Yeah, but that's from 650 to 730 or something... not 1000 ;)
[10:40] <Aard> mongrelcat: that's only true for chips delivered _after_ that statement, i.e. it should be safe to overclock the recent touchbook batches, but maybe not the old ones
[10:41] <mongrelcat> aha
[10:41] <adnyxo> do they change the tb hardware often?
[10:41] <Martix_> TB with working suspend and frequency scalling from minimum to 1 GHz would be killer :-)
[10:41] <mongrelcat> well since I might be RMAing my touchbook that's good news :P
[10:41] <adnyxo> or is a new release planned soon?
[10:41] <adnyxo> i dont want to get an old one
[10:41] <mongrelcat> adnyxo: i don't think so
[10:41] <adnyxo> good
[10:41] <mongrelcat> they updated it with more ram but other than that i don't think they have any plans'
[10:41] * Aard will most likely just get a second one in a few months
[10:42] <adnyxo> Martix_, that sounds epic
[10:42] <Meizirkki> I would overclock my TB if the kernel was omap-pm, otherwise It's too scary
[10:42] <Meizirkki> well, would try :P
[10:42] <Martix_> anybody already tried omap-pm na TB?
[10:43] <Aard> Meizirkki: judging by what you already did to your tb it surprises me to hear that from you :p
[10:43] <Meizirkki> Aard, okay okay if i knew exactly how to overclock it I would =P
[10:44] * Meizirkki begins by reading the 1000 posts at Maemotalk
[10:44] <adnyxo> have fun with that
[10:44] <Meizirkki> sure i will
[10:46] <adnyxo> im currently reading through all the forum posts on ai's tb forum
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[11:06] <Mrkva|w> hi
[11:09] <Mrkva|w> Whats the status of the graphics driver? I mean - is any closed-source kernel module required?
[11:09] <Mrkva|w> gregoiregentil: ?
[11:10] <drantin> mm... my running kernel claims to be untainted...
[11:11] <gregoiregentil> Mrkva|w: no
[11:11] <drantin> `cat /proc/sys/kernel/tainted` returns 0 anyway
[11:13] <Mrkva|w> well, I could have checked this
[11:13] <Mrkva|w> I??ve been searching for a while for a graphics card driver and found this> http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/HowtoUseSGXunderAngstrom
[11:19] <Meizirkki> Mrkva|w, I found out that the libs from SGX SDK fail on TB
[11:21] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: well, thats quite unfortunate
[11:22] <Meizirkki> Mrkva|w, i blame the AI kernel
[11:22] <Mrkva|w> I'm compiling my own kernel so I hope it works
[11:23] <Meizirkki> Mrkva|w, I'd like to test your kernel too :)
[11:23] <Mrkva|w> but, why the drivers aren't in the mainline? (or are they and I've missed something)
[11:26] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: by the way, AI kernel isn't using the drivers from SGX SDK?
[11:27] <Meizirkki> AFAIK (<=) Not the original ones as the do not work. New SDK was released while ago i don't know if they have updated
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[11:35] <adnyxo> does the tb come with a stylus>?
[11:35] <mongrelcat> yeah
[11:36] <leinir> Yes, but not one that you can insert somewhere on the tb and carry with you
[11:36] <leinir> (which, i find, was a very, very silly idea)
[11:37] * jvs (~jvs@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:37] <Mrkva|w> well, its onlz a small one :)
[11:38] <adnyxo> yea
[11:38] <adnyxo> cause if im gonna use a stylus i want it integrated
[11:38] <leinir> Mrkva|w: Which really only more the reason it /should/ have been integrated somewhere...
[11:38] <leinir> There's plenty of space for it
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[11:59] <Mrkva|w> aw, the cross-compilling is a pain in a neck :(
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[12:29] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: by the way, on the E17 youtube video... what virtual keyboard are you using?
[12:29] <Meizirkki> Mrkva|w, Illume
[12:29] <Meizirkki> it's an e17 module
[12:31] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: thanks, I've thought it'll be something like that (perfectly fits here)
[12:32] <Meizirkki> Mrkva|w, are you planning Ubuntu + e17 on your TB ?
[12:32] <mongrelcat> that would be pretty awesome
[12:33] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: Gentoo (because I think here every optimalized bit counts)+something
[12:34] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: you can release your's ubuntu :D
[12:35] * peksha (~peksha@145.86.broadband10.iol.cz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:36] <Meizirkki> ok
[12:36] <Meizirkki> Mrkva|w, I'm looking forward to Lucid on TB => armv7l optimized
[12:38] <leinir> i'm just looking forward to Meego/Harmattan on it ;
[12:38] <leinir> ;)
[12:45] <adnyxo> lxde looks good on it
[12:46] <Mrkva|w> adnyxo: I'm also looking at lxde right now
[12:46] <Mrkva|w> it's using my favourite openbox
[12:46] <adnyxo> i find that its a great balance between usability, beauty, and non-resource-hogginess
[12:46] <Mrkva|w> well, my favourite are tiling WMs, but touchbook has too small screen for them
[12:50] * mongrelcat (~taylorh@wifi-roaming-17-118.nss.udel.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:53] <leinir> *nods* full-screen WMs are where it's at :)
[12:57] * Meizirkki wants to overclock his TB now
[12:58] * Meizirkki also wants a hammock
[12:58] * Meizirkki stops listing before getting a floodbad
[13:03] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: overclock? I wanted too, but after some research, I've found out that the SD card is the main weakness
[13:03] * Meizirkki wants ext4
[13:04] <Mrkva|w> Meizirkki: where?
[13:05] <Meizirkki> I heard ext4 would bring some speed improvements on flash drives
[13:06] <Mrkva|w> well - it won't be significant when reading (because on the SD card the rootfs is stored as one big file) system files
[13:08] <Meizirkki> I can always unpack the rootfs to the second parition if it brings more speed
[13:08] <Meizirkki> :)
[13:08] <Mrkva|w> and I??m just thinking if it??s better to have rootfs on compressed FS (squashfs) or uncompressed
[13:08] <Mrkva|w> under heavy CPU load it's simple - uncompressed FS wins
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[13:09] <Mrkva|w> but during everyday use? and considering SD card is THAT slow
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[13:10] <Meizirkki> I'm off to bed, cya later
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[14:34] <Maeslin> hello, would someone have the value of inductor L1 in the keyboard/touchpad circuit board? Mine got torn off when one of the weights got free.
[14:52] <Aard> Maeslin: ah, good you're here. could you please keep the old soldering point in the wiki page, and just add the one you suggested as an alternative? main point of the one I've chosen is that you can use it _without_ removing the board
[14:52] <Maeslin> ah true
[14:52] <Maeslin> i'll add it back
[14:53] <Maeslin> at that point it's really a choice between a smaller point without removing the board or a bigger point that needs the board removed :p
[14:53] <Aard> besides, did you check if the point you've chosen always carries 5v? according to gregoire `it's 5V DC not 5V generated by battery and merged with DC', so I'm unsure if there's power with dc unplugged
[14:54] <Aard> well, the point actually isn't that bad to solder, and it's a component you'll hardly be able to break ;)
[14:54] <Maeslin> point :p
[14:56] <Maeslin> now I'm curious to see if I can fit a usb-ethernet adapter and a small hub in the keyboard section somewhere. That battery really takes a lot of space
[14:56] <Aard> as for the inductor: mine got killed the same way as yours, though I didn't bother to replace it so far
[14:57] <Aard> usb-hub?
[14:58] <Maeslin> yeah the keyboard and touchpad use usb as it is, no?
[14:58] <Aard> yes
[14:59] <Aard> if you can handle smd-components, go to the ti-site and order samples of their usb hub components. they got a few nice ones which require next to no additional parts
[14:59] <Maeslin> so i'd have to stick a small hub between the keyboard pcb and the hinge pcb
[14:59] <Aard> as for the ethernet, there's a highly integrated chip which might work easily, your main problem will be fitting the rj45 connector
[14:59] <Maeslin> hm yeah i'll look into that
[14:59] <Maeslin> I actually have one of those really tiny usb-ethernet adapters already on hand
[15:00] <Maeslin> I'd just have to change the rj45 connector to one of the very-low-profile ones they use in netbooks and UMPCs
[15:00] <Aard> back to what I mentioned above: do you have a multimeter at hand to check if the connector you've chosen always carries 5v?
[15:01] <Maeslin> actually the info came straight from Gregoire in an earlier conversation. That connector I picked is for an unused filter cap on the output of the 5V dc-dc regulator
[15:02] <Maeslin> if you have the schematics for the mainboard, it's right on the DC_5V0 bus. The schematics unfortunately don't show the power regulation section itself.
[15:02] <Aard> yes, I know. I talked about the same pad with him when I did the rtc-mod. the question here is: will it still have 5v when unplugged (as gregoire said the battery is not merged in there)
[15:03] <Maeslin> Hm, well it is a straight connection to the pin you indicated on L21
[15:03] <Maeslin> when unplugged: when turned off you mean?
[15:03] <Aard> no, when running on battery power only
[15:04] <Maeslin> ah let me check that right away. Hadn't thought of that.
[15:07] <Maeslin> yep getting a nice clean 5V
[15:07] <Aard> bottom unplugged?
[15:09] <Maeslin> yup
[15:10] <Aard> ok, then I have no idea what he was trying to tell me by `it's 5V DC not 5V generated by battery and merged with DC'
[15:10] <Maeslin> probably because there's a separate 5V bus that comes from the external supply
[15:10] <Maeslin> that gets fed only to the input of the power regulation circuit
[15:11] <Maeslin> say, pin 8 on the inter-part connector
[15:12] <Aard> but sounds fine, so let's the people decide if they'd like to remove the board, or not
[15:13] <Aard> (I personally was too lazy)
[15:13] <Maeslin> yeah i'm almost done with the wiki change
[15:14] <Maeslin> want me to get a better pic of the L21 connection? (circled and so on)
[15:15] <Aard> I personally think it's clear enough where to solder, but if you'd like to make another one, feel free
[15:15] <Maeslin> update complete with the old pic put back in place if you want to check it up
[15:16] <Aard> great, thanks. did you do the mod with your touchbook?
[15:17] <Maeslin> Ah not yet, i'm preparing actual PCBs for the mod
[15:17] <Maeslin> will either send the gerber/CAD files to AlwaysInnovating or make a whole bunch and sell them to whoever is interested
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[15:18] <Aard> ah, great. will you upload the files to the wiki? there is already a pcb layout, but unfortunately not using standard connectors
[15:19] <Maeslin> I have some access to low-yield fab facilities or I can send it to a company we deal with where I work. Since the final thing would be around a square inch I can probably get 40 to 80 out of a panel.
[15:19] <Aard> I decided to not do a pcb as the chip is big enough to do it without, and having to do a pcb would be something some of the people generally being able to do the mod would not be able to
[15:20] <Maeslin> Yeah i just don't like having chips dangling free and I actually have the means to do it
[15:20] <Aard> hey, it's not dangling free, it's neatly fixed in place ;)
[15:20] <Maeslin> ;)
[15:21] <Maeslin> I'm just glad they don't make the DS1307 or related chips in BGA package :p
[15:21] <Maeslin> *only in BGA package
[15:21] <Aard> if your board's not too expensive I might be interested in getting one, too, for my next book
[15:23] <Maeslin> hm, they'd basically be between $5 and $7 unpopulated if I make pro-grade ones, depending on quantity, or half that if I make them with the CNC prototyping machine we have.
[15:24] <Aard> well, we'll see. if I got my stuff back by then I might as well make it myself
[15:25] <Maeslin> $3 to $5 more if populated, but that's a rough estimate and I'm not yet taking into account how hard Digikey would screw me with shipping and handling fees.
[15:26] <Aard> btw, another thing that might fit nicely in the bottom part is a smart card reader. main problem here would be creating a slot for the cards that looks nice
[15:27] <Maeslin> yeah
[15:28] <Maeslin> shame we didn't get the laser CNC instead of the regular mini-mill for pcb prototyping
[15:28] <Maeslin> that would have done short work of making nice slots in plastic. :p
[15:29] <Maeslin> Actually, it might be pretty easy if you put it just under the touchpad, right between the two weights
[15:30] <Maeslin> that way it's more cutting a groove than a slot, makes it easier
[15:30] <Maeslin> hm
[15:30] <Maeslin> nevermind
[15:30] <Maeslin> wouldn't fit because of the pcb
[15:32] <Aard> pcb doesn't matter, it's the plastic thingy containing the contacts that needs to fit. I'm thinking only about i2c smartcards, so I can hook the reader directly up to i2c bus. I'll test that in a few weeks with my spare keyboard
[15:33] <Maeslin> that's what I meant, the keyboard/touchpad pcb drops too low in front and would make difficult to fit a reader slot in the front
[15:34] <Maeslin> you would probably have to remove one of the weights
[15:34] <Maeslin> they're not all that necessary with the feet in place now
[15:34] <Aard> thanks to the plastic thingies on the back the main purpose of the weights is getting lose and killing inductors, so, I planned to remove them anyway
[15:35] <Maeslin> Oh, for the DS1307 board. Any problem with doing surface mount or would you prefer regular through-hole?
[15:36] <Aard> for the board I'd use the smd version. the version I used is nice if you want to do it the way I did
[15:36] <Maeslin> Are your pcb files already online?
[15:37] <Aard> I didn't make pcb files, some russian did
[15:38] <Aard> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=688&start=10#p6015
[15:41] <Maeslin> nice
[15:41] <Maeslin> that's pretty much what I was going for
[15:41] <Maeslin> gotta love his home-made coin cell holder
[15:41] <Mrkva|w> wow
[15:42] <Mrkva|w> I've already spent more time cross compilling perl than the rest of the whole system
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[15:42] <Mrkva|w> by the way, anyone is actually using this RTC mod?
[15:43] <Maeslin> I think Aard is?
[15:43] <Aard> Mrkva|w: there wouldn't have been a point in doing it without wanting to use it
[15:44] <Aard> the russian I mentioned above is using it, too. there are a few others who wanted to try it, but I don't know if they did
[15:44] <Maeslin> i'll be using it as soon as I make the PCB and get the parts
[15:44] <Mrkva|w> I mean anyone here
[15:44] <Aard> well, me, obviously
[15:46] <Maeslin> doing something simple with lots of room is a nice change from the mess I usually have to deal with at work
[15:46] <Mrkva|w> eh
[15:47] <Mrkva|w> nevermind... I??ve figured it out by myself :D
[15:48] * Aard hands Mrkva|w a cookie
[15:48] <Maeslin> could be resumed as fitting ten cubic inches of electronics in six cubic inches of space all the while making it redundant, idiot-proof, accident-proof and waterproof to twelve thousand feet depth.
[15:49] <Aard> that's easy, just fit a wormwhole in the box, and you got all the space you need on the other end
[15:50] <Maeslin> that does help except for some mild issues with waterproofing and pressure rating
[15:50] <Maeslin> pressure cases with walls thickness equal to available internal diameter are touchy :p
[15:51] <Aard> oh well, revert to non-euclidian geometry then
[15:51] <Maeslin> that's my usual approach
[15:53] <Maeslin> gotta add a good dose of maths with imaginary numbers to stay within the lack of budget at the same time, makes for an interesting work environment
[15:53] <Aard> oh well, those jokes remind me of: http://bwachter.lart.info/moviemistakes.png
[15:53] <Maeslin> XD
[15:54] <Maeslin> I may as well try to contact the BBC see if they have any spare tardis parts on hand. Could prove convenient.
[15:55] <Aard> well, as they just got a renewed tardis they actually might have
[15:55] <Maeslin> That's true. In fact it would probably be a fire sale.
[15:56] <Aard> was a very pleasant surprise, arriving at the hotel and realizing that they just aired a new episode
[15:56] <Maeslin> On an unrelated note, I ordered one of those small internal webcam for laptops to see if I can find a way to fit it in the tablet frame. At $8 including shipping it's not a loss if it doesn't work. :p
[15:57] <Maeslin> just missed it?
[15:57] <Aard> no, watched it in iplayer
[15:57] <Maeslin> ok
[15:58] <adnyxo> Maeslin, that sounds good
[15:58] <adnyxo> hope it works
[15:58] <adnyxo> how many mp?
[15:58] <Aard> oh, I'd like to see pictures of the module when you get it. I haven't been able to find a fitting module so far
[15:58] <Aard> is it usb, or i2c and some other datapins?
[15:58] <Maeslin> 1.3MP, apparently USB
[15:59] <Maeslin> though it appears to use one of those annoying flat cables so i'll have to replace the connector
[15:59] <Aard> I'd quite like to use an i2c module, but I doubt I'll be able to get to the cpu-connectors meant for hooking up video devices
[16:00] <Maeslin> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330360813725
[16:00] <Maeslin> I'm not sure the I2C bus would be able to handle the bandwidth of a video device either
[16:01] <Maeslin> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330360813725 might work better if you're in the UK
[16:01] <Maeslin> no iplayer available up here in canada unfortunately
[16:01] <Aard> Maeslin: did some talking with one of the kernel developers for that i2c camera stuff. they usually use i2c to control the camera, and retrieve the image via other connectors
[16:01] <Maeslin> aah ok
[16:02] <Aard> the cpu used in the touchbook does support that kind of video input, but it's unlikely that I can get to the pins required for this
[16:02] <Maeslin> similar approach to what is used for security cameras then. serial bus for control, analog video input
[16:02] <Mrkva|w> again... BGA sucks >]
[16:02] <Aard> though, if you don't want 25fps high speed i2c (what the chip in the touchbook can do, according to the datasheet) would be sufficient for video transport, too
[16:03] <Aard> would be, as I don't know of any modules offering image transport by i2c
[16:04] <Maeslin> hm, high-speed I2C as supported by the touchbook chip might be limited to one or two mbps at the very most
[16:04] <Aard> ah, here are the numbers. the twl4030 should be able to handle up to 3.4mbit/s
[16:04] <Maeslin> ok
[16:04] <Aard> that means, qvga at 25fps, or higher resolutions with limited framerate
[16:05] <Maeslin> yup
[16:05] * mammique (~mammique@AMontsouris-159-1-109-198.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[16:05] <Aard> though I have no idea what it will do inside the touchbook, those are numbers what the chip can do according to the datasheet
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[16:06] <Maeslin> you would have about one frame per ten seconds at 1.3MP (1280x1024) if the camera transmits raw video in 24-bit color
[16:07] <Maeslin> so, something similar to streaming realplayer videos
[16:08] <Aard> :)
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[16:11] <adnyxo> Maeslin, lol that was funny
[16:12] <Maeslin> bad, bad memories of realplayer videos over 56k
[16:12] <Maeslin> but that was in another era
[16:14] <Aard> Maeslin: http://xkcd.com/598/
[16:14] <Maeslin> LOL
[16:15] <Maeslin> at least he's not old enough to have gotten used to ASCII art
[16:15] <Maeslin> the alt text is also appropriate
[16:15] <Aard> oh well, the first porn pictures I watched on my c64 were not _that_ far from ascii art
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[16:17] <Maeslin> I actually had a c64 quite a bit after I had access to my first computer
[16:18] <Maeslin> granted, said first was an original IBM PC
[16:18] <Aard> I'm still using mine. though not for watching porn :p
[16:18] <Maeslin> :p
[16:18] <Maeslin> no nostalgia? :p
[16:18] <Aard> not in that particular area
[16:19] <Maeslin> but... the hair! the imperfections! the lack of surgery!
[16:19] <Maeslin> the groovy music!
[16:19] <Maeslin> :p
[16:21] <adnyxo> lol
[16:23] <Maeslin> hm
[16:24] <Maeslin> had I more budget, I would be very tempted to get another empty tablet casing, two hinge parts, another LCD/touchscreen and a usb-lvds adapter
[16:24] <Maeslin> make the touchbook into a real 'book'
[16:25] <Maeslin> probably a switch to pixel-qi LCDs at the same time
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[16:26] <adnyxo> speaking of which, how has your experiance with the touchscreen been
[16:26] <adnyxo> is it laggy or does it not respond to the first press?
[16:26] <adnyxo> or does it work well
[16:27] <Maeslin> works pretty well, less sensitive than capacitive ones but that's normal
[16:27] <Maeslin> it just needs a bit more pressure
[16:27] <Maeslin> i've dealt with much worse
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[16:27] <adnyxo> okay
[16:27] <Mrkva|w> Maeslin: more pressure? mine works just fine
[16:28] <adnyxo> its just i hesitate because of the resistive screen
[16:28] <adnyxo> all the resistive screens ive used have been a pita
[16:28] <Mrkva|w> on the other hand, I usually press it using my fingernail.. that's more precise than complete finger
[16:28] <Maeslin> they've been improving gradually, but as I said it does need more pressure and a more constant pressure than a capacitive one
[16:30] <adnyxo> for example, in one of the demo videos it looks like it takes two or three presses to click on something
[16:30] <Mrkva|w> adnyxo: I'm glad it's a resistive one. I'm gonna make a neoprene cover for my TB with some transparent plastic foil over the display :)
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[18:01] <Mrkva|w> okay, I resign on the cross compiling... I'm going to compile the whole system on the tochbook :D
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[20:18] * minimec (~minimec@223-10.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[20:29] * tommd (~Thomas_Du@65-102-40-74.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[20:29] * tommd (~Thomas_Du@65-102-40-74.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #touchbook
[20:57] * shiznebit (~shiznebit@ool-18b99096.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:00] * niloc132 (~colin@adsl-99-189-209-104.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:40] * tcl-tester (~wtracy@adsl-99-159-46-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:18] * tcl-tester (~wtracy@adsl-99-159-46-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:27] * bstag (~bstag@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:34] * Vito_| (~Sysel@gw.loccal.net) has joined #touchbook
[23:50] * Vito_| (~Sysel@gw.loccal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)

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