#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-11-27

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:01] <vishal> DJWillis: here is my bootlog http://pastebin.com/m5b4c5ce7
[0:04] <DJWillis> vishal: (Sourcery G++ Lite 2009q3-68) << Do you have another version handy? I can't say I have had much luck on the Pandora booting less than .30 with CSL 2009q3. I gave up on CSL a long time ago. AISO will be built with 4.3.3 mainline GCC.
[0:07] <vishal> DJWillis:Is toolchain relevant to my problem ? How would toolchain matter for USB ?
[0:10] <DJWillis> vishal: of course it's relevent, two toolchains can produce massively different code. However I am not 100% sure it's your problem only pointing out a huge vairence from AIOS/OE/Angstrom and your build (assuming you have the same patchset/config etc.).
[0:12] <vishal> DJWillis:Ok,I had built the kernel manually on my machine .I will try with the AIOS way
[0:13] <DJWillis> vishal: well just try another toolchain to compair, I know in CSL terms 2007/q3 used to build working kernels from .27>mainline
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[0:14] <vishal> DJWillis:Thanks for the response . I will try it out.Its tough to communicate with ppl from different timezone in IRC .Why cant we have a mailing list ?
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[0:16] <DJWillis> vishal: your talking to someone who does not even own a touchbook ;-), ask Gregoire when he is about in the chan.
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[0:22] <vishal> DJWillis: I will ask him :) .Thanks again ....bye
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[0:55] <hyc> there is a mailing list for developers now
[1:14] <vishal> hyc : IS it ?
[1:15] <vishal> hyc : which one is it ?
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[7:11] <viridior> any of the AIOS devs on. I think i figured out my problem with my first TB, the grey cable in the back is partially shredded. I'm pretty confident that I can just swap that with another and my graphics output will be normal. Anyone seen were I can get that part?
[7:25] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, We're about to perform some memleak related maintenance on a handful of the ircd servers, at the same time we'll be rehubbing a bit. It will be noisy for the next ten minutes or so. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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[7:28] <zopper> Have anybody photo of keyboard and touchbook board? I think, I maybe haven't here one resistor...
[7:30] <dpb> I think the wiki has photos?
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[8:20] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[11:46] <Zopper> Is there something like "gksudo"? I didn't found anything.
[11:53] <Gary13579> Zopper, gksudo is pretty much the same thing as sudo
[11:53] <Gary13579> just without the graphical password prompt IIRC
[11:56] <drantin> with ;)
[11:56] <Gary13579> er yes with
[11:56] <Gary13579> it causes some problems in some obscure software iirc but basically 99% of the time sudo works fine
[11:59] <Zopper> Gary13579: I know... But I need the graphic.
[11:59] <Zopper> I don't want run my script in terminal for sudo
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[12:04] <Gary13579> I'm not seeing the command anywhere, sorry Zopper
[12:04] <Gary13579> but, what's linux if you don't have 20 xterm windows up anyway
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[12:07] <Zopper> Yeah... but need I xterm for connection to my wpa2 wifi? ;-) I think no..
[12:08] <Gary13579> ? what are you trying to start up, nm-applet?
[12:09] <Zopper> wpa-supplicant
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[12:11] <Gary13579> Zopper, try running it with option -B
[12:11] <Gary13579> should throw the daemon to the background
[12:11] <Gary13579> (I've never used wpa_supplicant, just going by the man page)
[12:12] <Zopper> yes... But I need run it manualy, not always when system is starting
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[12:13] <Zopper> and this is, why I need gksudo... When I run my script (wpa_supplicant + dhcpcd), I need root perms.
[12:13] <Zopper> And I like run it without terminal
[12:19] * azaghal_ is now known as azaghal
[12:19] <Gary13579> you should be able to set that up in rc.d and it will run in root
[12:21] <Zopper> Gary13579: I don't want run it on TB's start...
[12:22] <Gary13579> heh, just trying to give counter suggestions, because I couldn't find a gksu program for angstrom
[12:24] <hyc> why do you want to run wpa_supplicant manually?
[12:24] <hyc> just let it run in the background
[12:24] <hyc> moreover, why run it yourself at all?
[12:25] <hyc> the AI networking scripts will start and stop it
[12:27] <Zopper> hyc: AI networking script can't work with wpa2, only wpa1
[12:28] <hyc> what are you setting differently in your manual config that the AI script doesn't set?
[12:28] <hyc> there is no option in wpa_supplicant to use WPA1 vs WPA2, it handles them both automatically
[12:29] <Zopper> hyc: when I tried it, it doesn't work....
[12:29] <hyc> so answer the question - what are you setting differently that the AI script didn't set?
[12:29] <DJWillis> koen: how would you feel about people cleaning up some of the mess that is libsdl in OE at the moment? I guess we would need ways (mix of distro and machine) to turn on/off X11, tslib and DirectFB. to have one master libsdl-1.2.14.bb ;)
[12:30] <Zopper> hyc: I don't know, I didn't look at AI script much...
[12:31] <hyc> it creates a conf file in /var/run/wpa_supplicant.conf
[12:31] <hyc> pastebin your working conf file
[12:32] <Zopper> I am not on touchbook now... So I can't pastebin it. :(
[12:33] <hyc> if you show what's missing we can add it to the AI script
[12:33] <hyc> if you just go off and cook up your own solution, it's no benefit to other users who may come down this path in the future
[12:34] <hyc> post it to the AI bugzilla when you next get a chance
[12:36] <Zopper> hyc: I only create simply config file as is in howtos on web (maybe archlinux.org or any board), nothing special
[12:36] <Zopper> I'll try look at AI script, when I will be on TB
[12:37] <hyc> I don't think WPA1 vs WPA2 is your problem...
[12:37] <hyc> it works fine with WPA2
[12:37] <hyc> over here it does, anyway...
[12:44] <Zopper> hyc: but my main problem is stability - when I work on TB, in few minutes it go to kernel panic or freeze (when I am in X, I don't know if it is kernel panic or something else). I tried reinstall OS, but not help.
[12:45] <hyc> can't help you there. I've never had that kind of problem with mine.
[12:45] <hyc> if it's just the screen going blank, that's not a crash, that's just the screen blanker...
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[12:46] <Zopper> no...i see desktop and programs, but it is frozen - time is not changing, no response...
[12:47] <Zopper> And when I am in tty, I see kernel panic message...
[12:48] <koen> DJWillis: libsdl is modular, no need to turn on/off anything (except opie support)
[12:48] <koen> DJWillis: don't succumb to the useflag maffia!
[12:49] <DJWillis> koen: hmm, define modular, it does not work well without the useflags ;). Tell me as it makes adding 1.2.14 a shed load easier if I don't have to sort other fuckage.
[12:51] <koen> libsdl works well enough for me currently, using fbdev why run without a DISPLAY var and using X11 when run with a DISPLAY var se
[12:51] <koen> t
[12:51] <koen> as it should be
[12:51] <koen> I don't see a reason why we should make life a lot harder to save a few KiB
[12:51] <koen> just because a package has knobs to turn things on and off doesn't mean you need to use them
[12:52] <DJWillis> koen: I don't want to do that, I want to add 1.2.14 and enable tslib support in libSDL (I can do that with machine features but it then means I need to make it a machine arch package).
[12:52] <koen> why does it need to be a machine arch package?
[12:52] <koen> libts only does something when a ts is present at runtime
[12:53] <koen> the "my machine has a ts, so anything linking with tslib is machine specific" mindset needs to die
[12:54] <DJWillis> koen: if I build with --enable-input-tslib i'll keed to add a runtime depend on tslib for everyone. I tend to agree as TS libs and the hardware can be taken and added on demand. I just want to do it right but you know OE, I get lots of different ways and I just don't want to do things that have no chance of ever getting commits, waste of f'ing time ;-))
[12:54] <koen> there are a ton of packages in OE that link to tslib uncondiationally
[12:55] <koen> tslib is not that big
[12:55] <koen> just add 1.2.14 with tslib enabled, without any knobs to tweak
[12:55] <koen> the OE useflag maffia fails to see than not everything needs a useflag
[12:56] <koen> (just like we can have sudo and sudo-pam recipes instead of the override monstrosity pb made you write)
[12:56] <DJWillis> koen: all I needed to know, thanks, it's going in for the 1.2.14 bb's (libsdl-x11_1.2.14.bb anyway ;-). Shame libSDL is a bit of a pit patchwise that dont seem to be needed.
[12:56] * koen puts on raymond blanc and suddenly feels hungry
[12:57] <koen> ~hail bbc2
[12:57] <DJWillis> koen: and provides virtual/sudo or something like that, yep, that's what I would have rather done, maybe I need to stop asking in some chans ;-)
[12:57] <DJWillis> koen: in the UK or on internet catchup?
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[13:23] <edgar> I there an archive for the dev mailinglist ?
[13:27] <DJWillis> koen: the KISS solution seems to work ;-), just have to take a small hack out of the inc.
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[14:14] <edgar> Dont't like this python or perl apps, especially the permanent one's in the background. I'am alone ? :)
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[14:26] <Gary13579> edgar, what are they used for?
[14:26] <Gary13579> also, hello Gregoire
[14:27] <gregoiregentil> Hello
[14:28] <edgar> Gary13579: The ai tools and the onboard app.
[14:30] <Gary13579> Unless it has an overhead of 5-10mb I wouldn't really complain about it, but I don't have one so I can't check.
[14:35] <edgar> It's is slow and using to much resources. Not good for system tools.
[14:35] <edgar> But maybe it only temporary .
[14:38] <edgar> Gregoire do want use onboard in the future ?
[14:39] <gregoiregentil> In the coming release, we have improved and fixed a major bug in onboard. So I think that it start to work quite well. Especially, the window is hidden and not destroyed, so the keyboard can pop up immediately on-demand
[14:40] <gregoiregentil> To be honest, I would have preferred to use another application, but when I selected the screen keyboard, I only found onboard
[14:41] <gregoiregentil> in the mean time, I found other applications that could perhaps do a better job (essentially, not being python based but gtk-based), but I don't want to start again the whole job of fine tuning such application
[14:41] <gregoiregentil> so unless, this coming release with onboard has a strong problem with onscreen board, I'm not sure that I want to change this right now
[14:43] <Gary13579> I think he's mainly referring to the fact that it's Python/Perl in general. How much memory does the Python VM eat up, 10mb?
[14:43] <gregoiregentil> No that much but definitely more than a GTK app for sure :-(
[14:44] <edgar> is there no gtk app ? Can Illume do it ?
[14:45] <Gary13579> edgar, I'd personally prefer development time was spent into power management before keyboard :).
[14:46] <edgar> Run top, you will see onboard using the same resource like the X-Server. Thst is not smart ;)
[14:47] <gregoiregentil> it's perhaps the bug that has been fixed which the app was using more CPU that it should have
[14:49] <edgar> Not only CPU, have a look at the memory usage.
[14:57] <edgar> Gary13579: Of course, this is also important.
[15:00] <FIN__Master> does anyone know what could be the default root password for ubuntu? Installed in tb and didn't set a password and now its asking it
[15:00] <oly> try ubuntu or guest
[15:00] <Gary13579> FIN__Master, ubuntu by default uses a random root password, you aren't supposed to use the root account
[15:00] <oly> but you could boot in recovery mode and set one
[15:01] <FIN__Master> the thing is that when tb boots the first thing it asks is to log in. And I havent made any users..
[15:02] <Gary13579> Did you download a prebuilt image from the forums? it likely has a user account setup
[15:02] <oly> could use a livecd and chroot in to setup a user / password
[15:02] <FIN__Master> i remember that when I tried Mer those was root/rootme
[15:02] <oly> but sounds to me like it did not install properly
[15:02] <Gary13579> if you used the setup GUI it should have asked you to make an account
[15:02] <oly> did you use a live cd ? or alternate out of intrest ?
[15:03] <FIN__Master> i built the rootfs with the instructions from gitorious.org
[15:04] <FIN__Master> built the rootfs and extracted it to the SD. It worked that way before for Mer and seems to work now if only I had access :)
[15:04] <Gary13579> tried no password? (just hit enter)
[15:05] <FIN__Master> yes. I already tried the most obvious ways
[15:05] <FIN__Master> does the ai user have a default pwd in tb. I used the aios modules..
[15:06] <hyc> nope, no password
[15:06] <FIN__Master> Or can I make an user account manually to the sd?
[15:17] <FIN__Master> i can read the script doing it but i dont quite understand what it does
[15:19] <Gary13579> FIN__Master, tried username touchbook, pass ubuntu?
[15:19] <Gary13579> or root//ubuntu
[15:19] <Gary13579> (looking through scripts atm, and the password ubuntu came up)
[15:20] <FIN__Master> the script from gitorious.org ?
[15:20] <Gary13579> yes
[15:25] <Gary13579> FIN__Master, it LOOKS like the username is the user of the machine you ran mkrootfs.sh on, with the password of ubuntu
[15:29] <FIN__Master> im copying other stuff from the aios card now but ill try
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[15:46] <Gary13579> Any results?
[15:47] <FIN__Master> No :S none of the mentioned works
[15:47] <FIN__Master> could it work if I copied the whole /home folder from the working aios?
[15:48] <FIN__Master> or any idea where the pwd is stored
[15:48] <Gary13579> Are you sure you set it up properly, following this? http://gitorious.org/ubuntutouchbookremix/pages/Home
[15:48] <FIN__Master> kind of
[15:49] <Gary13579> what did you do differently
[15:49] <FIN__Master> the formatting script left the sd unformatted so i formatted it with gparted
[15:49] <FIN__Master> and that cpfiles script also did not work properly
[15:49] <FIN__Master> but i followed it and did that all manually
[15:50] <FIN__Master> no idea why the script didn't work
[15:50] <Gary13579> well according to this http://gitorious.org/ubuntutouchbookremix/tb-ubuntu-scripts/blobs/master/mkrootfs.sh
[15:50] <Gary13579> username will be the user you ran the file on, and password = ubuntu
[15:53] <FIN__Master> That script worked fine. but no success
[15:54] <FIN__Master> got to try to do the scripts again
[15:57] <FIN__Master> so should it be root/ubuntu because i ran the script as root
[16:01] <Gary13579> FIN__Master, ahh
[16:01] <Gary13579> haha
[16:01] <Gary13579> that's probably your problem
[16:02] <Gary13579> it sets the root password to "ubuntu", then randomizes it later
[16:02] <Gary13579> run it as a user or replace $USER in that script with FIN__Master
[16:02] <FIN__Master> So I have ubuntu with only root user and a random password :) Thats nice
[16:02] <FIN__Master> Ill go guessing :D
[16:03] <Gary13579> Ubuntu really tries to make it so you can't use the root account
[16:03] <Gary13579> it's against "the ubuntu way"
[16:03] <Gary13579> (and I agree, you really shouldn't be doing tasks like that as root anyway)
[16:04] <FIN__Master> Ok. Thanks for helping. Got to go to sleep before its morning. Ill try again tomorrow. Now a bit wiser
[16:04] <Gary13579> np, good night :)
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[18:52] <Guest64158> Ok, I'm probably just dumb, but I can't find an image of Ubuntu Netbook Remix for ARM. I thought it was being supported?
[18:53] <Gary13579> Guest64158, not officially IIRC
[18:53] <Gary13579> you need to build it yourself
[18:53] <Gary13579> follow this guide http://gitorious.org/ubuntutouchbookremix/pages/Home
[18:53] <Gary13579> it's really for testing shit only, as it doesn't work fully (sound is broken)
[18:54] <Guest64158> Ok, thanks. I just read something that said they were supporting ARM on netbooks, though... <shrug>
[18:55] <hyc> sure, Ubuntu is supporting ARM
[18:55] <hyc> just not specifically the TouchBook
[19:05] <Guest64158> Yeah, but I didn't see any ARM images, just i386.
[19:05] <Guest64158> Gary, what's qemu?
[19:06] <Gary13579> Guest64158, qemu is an emulator for x86, lets you do stuff like emulate the ARM platform.
[19:06] <Gary13579> it shouldn't be needed for building ubuntu...
[19:06] <Guest64158> And who created the build scripts for Ubuntu Touch Book Remix?
[19:06] <Gary13579> no idea :)
[19:07] <Gary13579> I personally wouldn't bother installing it
[19:07] <Guest64158> The build script is calling for it.
[19:07] <Guest64158> mkrootfs.sh
[19:09] <Guest64158> Hmmm, must be Ubuntu asking for it.
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[19:15] <hyc> hmmm. ntpclient is the thing making the screen go blank when you initially get a network connection
[19:15] <hyc> I wonder if that's also fixed by the screen timer change
[19:16] <hyc> sounds like multiple tasks got assigned to the same timer
[19:16] <hyc> I should download an up to date OS image...
[19:18] <gregoiregentil> hyc: how did you figure out that ntpclient is the reason why the screen goes blank when you get connection? I don't remember if with 2009-11.a kernel, this problem still occurs or not
[19:19] <hyc> I just ran it by hand, and immediately the screen went blank
[19:19] <Guest64158> I'm getting a number of transient blankings whenever I have a USB event.
[19:20] <hyc> but this isn't the 11a final image
[19:21] <gregoiregentil> you should try with 11a and its kernel
[19:21] <Gary13579> Guest64158, this is supposedly normal, I'm not positive why.
[19:21] <gregoiregentil> I do remember that this blank screen after connection was rather random. So it would make sense that it was linked to the blank-screen clock problem which is fixed in 11.a
[19:22] <hyc> right. downloading....
[19:23] <Guest64158> Gary, my laptop doesn't blank when I insert a USB device.
[19:23] <Guest64158> Seems minor issue for now, though.
[19:23] <Gary13579> Nor does mine, but someone from the forums said the kernel was doing it on purpose for some reason but didn't specify.
[19:24] <Guest64158> Good to know.
[19:31] <hyc> hm, it looks like I already have the current kernel, just not the latest rootfs
[19:31] <hyc> anyway, will reset the card soon and see
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[20:00] <hyc> cool. with the 2009-11a the screen didn't blank when ntpclient ran
[20:00] <Gary13579> good to hear :)
[20:27] <hyc> howdy robclark, what's new?
[20:27] <robclark> hiya hyc
[20:28] <robclark> been hiding away in lab 90hrs a week working on omap4 stuff ;-)
[20:28] <hyc> ooooo
[20:28] <robclark> so not much time for the tb lately :-(
[20:28] <hyc> ah too bad
[20:28] <hyc> when will omap4 be available to the Little People...
[20:28] <hyc> seems like it's only targeted for handset manufacturers
[20:29] <robclark> not sure.. AFAIK there are plans to do a beagle board sort of thing.. but I don't really know details..
[20:29] <hyc> that would be a nice step
[20:29] <Gary13579> handset manufacturers are their #1 target imho
[20:29] <Gary13579> take all the BB's/Touch Books sold and it will barely dent their sales
[20:30] <hyc> true
[20:30] <hyc> but this is only a start
[20:30] <robclark> for wireless, yeah, they target big volume customers... but they recognize the benefit that beagle has brought
[20:30] <Gary13579> You work for TI, Rob?
[20:30] <robclark> y
[20:31] <Gary13579> (is that a yes or why)
[20:31] <robclark> (but just a code monkey.. I don't really know details of business plans and that sort of thign)
[20:31] <robclark> y==yes
[20:31] <Gary13579> ahh, yeah I have heard good things from TI in regards to smaller projects
[20:32] <hyc> the world is moving away from behemoth monolithic CPUs
[20:32] <Gary13579> hyc, unfortunately it's not
[20:32] <hyc> and more toward specialized accelerators
[20:32] <Gary13579> netbook market is still 90% atom
[20:32] <Gary13579> well, 95-99%
[20:32] <robclark> o4 is a behemoth, but not in terms of size ;-)
[20:32] <hyc> and the atom is pathetic without a decent GPU
[20:33] <Gary13579> the atom is pathetic in general :p
[20:33] <hyc> but more to the point, people are happy with 1.6GHz x86
[20:33] <hyc> they don't need 4GHz quadcore x86
[20:34] <hyc> yeah well, that too... I certainly wouldn't own an atom based machine
[20:34] <Gary13579> My notebook is Pentium M, ages old... and I've read that the Atom is a tad less power efficient as it
[20:34] <Gary13579> which makes ZERO sense considering Atom is at least 5 years newer
[20:35] <hyc> heh. yeah, I'm typing on my pentium M notebook right now too
[20:38] <hyc> hmm, spoke too soon. I still got a blank screen when my network connection came up
[20:51] <hyc> hmm, /usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a has been stripped ? can't link any C programs
[21:19] <hyc> I grabbed the libc_nonshared.a from the 2009-09c rootfs
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