#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-11-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[3:13] <vishal> Is usb working with OE build ?
[3:16] <_koen_> it is for me
[3:16] <_koen_> with regular OE, though
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[3:56] <vishal> Is usb working with OE build ?
[3:56] <vishal> anybody there ?
[3:58] <honk> <_koen_> it is for me
[3:58] <honk> <_koen_> with regular OE, though
[4:00] <vishal> _koen_:What is the regular OE setup ? I took the kernel from ai.oppenembedded.dev
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[4:03] <vishal> Is there any mailing list available for touchbook development >?
[4:41] * leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) has joined #touchbook
[4:47] <Gary13579> vishal, it's very early morning in the US, and it's a US holiday today, you'll likely get better luck tomorrow or in a few (10) hours
[4:51] <vishal> Gary13579,Thank you
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[7:27] <Gary13579> "The Touch Book is powered by 5V @ 3.5A (17.5W). The minimum needed is probably 1.5A (7.5W)."
[7:27] <Gary13579> how exactly does it require 1.5A?
[7:28] <Gary13579> BB only uses 400mAh at full load, does screen + usb hub really take up 1.1Ah?
[7:35] <_koen_> you're forgetting that stuff stuffed into the usb ports can take upto 500mA@5V as well
[7:37] <Gary13579> hmm I suppose, I've never used a usb wifi module but does it take up the entire 500mA?
[7:40] <reis> is there an easy way to change the uboot environment settings? or even better, is there a way to get into the uboot command shell without a serial line?
[7:40] <reis> or is this done by changing the uboot env and replace the env serial with tty1 ?
[7:41] <reis> perhaps using a modified version of the ai-supplied boot.scr ?
[7:46] <viridior> reis: i guess its possible with mtd-utils, but i haven't tried it yet
[7:46] <reis> ic thx
[7:47] <reis> viridior: the easiest way to exec another /sbin/init ? do you have an idea?
[7:47] <viridior> rename and link
[7:47] <viridior> different OS, or just different init?
[7:47] <reis> well, OS,
[7:47] <reis> i have a debian chroot
[7:47] <reis> and id like to boot into it
[7:48] <reis> tried to rename their linuxrc and wrote a minimal linuxrc script that should exec my /sbin/init
[7:48] <reis> but this is ignored..
[7:48] <viridior> you can make a simple /sbin/init script using busybox howto. just rename the current one and edit it to auto chroot to debian
[7:48] <viridior> ah
[7:49] <reis> yes, that was the idea of a collegue, too. but this linuxrc is ignored... is it already executed from the squashfs?
[7:50] <reis> and how would the AI kernel remount (this aufs thing) once he gave control to init ?
[7:51] <viridior> reis: yes, there is a initramfs image executed in squashfs that must recreated or replaced
[7:51] <reis> whew
[7:51] <reis> thanks
[7:51] <viridior> why not just get a separate sd card and put debian on it?
[7:51] <viridior> works will with gentoo/neuvoo
[7:51] <viridior> err.... well
[7:51] <reis> because I am really new to u-boot and these things :)
[7:52] <viridior> its actually easier and i would be more than happy to step you thru it
[7:52] <viridior> installing debian however... your on your own ;)
[7:52] <reis> that does sound very good!
[7:52] <reis> yes, yes, :)
[7:53] <viridior> your probably going to need at least a 2GB card, i would recommend 4 or 8
[7:53] <reis> check
[7:53] <reis> you are in the gentoo team for arm, aren't you?
[7:54] <reis> perhaps i just sneak some infos from your howtos
[7:54] <viridior> yep, http://neuvoo.org/wiki/
[7:54] <viridior> ill drop the link in a sec
[7:54] <reis> kewl! thumbs up
[7:54] <dpb> how's neuvoo doing btw? how workable is it on the touchbook?
[7:55] <viridior> dpb: its getting there, i have wireless and openbox working, going back and natively compiling a few odds and ends that didn't cross compile
[7:55] <viridior> reis: http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/wiki/LinuxBootDiskFormat
[7:56] <viridior> reis: you can also follow the aios howto on their wiki for formatting cards... its essentially the same
[7:56] <reis> thanks viridior, will try it!
[7:56] <viridior> np, let me know when you are ready for the next step
[7:56] <reis> for sure!
[7:57] <viridior> dpb: working on compiling python-2.6.4/3.1.1, xorg-server-1.7.1 than im heading to lxde and e17
[7:58] <viridior> dpb: you can see my progress here: http://neuvoo.org/gentoo/packages/armv7a/0.2.x/desktop/
[7:59] <viridior> im still stuck using the AIOS kernel, i have a custom beagleboard kernel based on 2.6.32-rc8 that works well with lots of modules, but it wouldn't boot on the TB
[7:59] <dpb> Yeah, I'm using the AIOS kernel with Ubuntu too
[7:59] <viridior> i may have to make a ebuild for their kernel git and than add on a few patches to get it caught up
[8:00] <viridior> dpb: does Ubuntu use armv7a compiled binaries or armv4/armv5?
[8:01] <dpb> atleast it's higher than what debian uses, but can't remember what it was
[8:01] <viridior> anyone over there though about tarballing/making packages of the AIOS scripts and programs?
[8:01] <dpb> I think ubuntu is armv6 optimized
[8:02] <viridior> thats good
[8:02] <dpb> I'm not sure if I want all the AIOS scripts/programs
[8:02] <viridior> once im happy with our images ill start doing benchmarks... eventually im going to build a NAND system with RT
[8:03] <viridior> hehe
[8:04] <dpb> viridior: no vim in your repos? :)
[8:04] <_koen_> viridior: I keep asking gregroire to put his touchbook hardware helper apps in a seperate repo, but still no luck
[8:04] <viridior> reis did bring up an issue that ive been wanting to get to eventually... using mtd-utils to change the u-boot bootcmd and bootargs so we can get around the issue with sodering a serial connection. Know anyone looking into that?
[8:04] <_koen_> viridior: if I had more spare time I'd create a few gitorious repos for them myself
[8:04] <_koen_> viridior: why not use uboot-utils for that?
[8:04] <viridior> _koen_: ill start adding my voice to the chorus
[8:05] * viridior wasn't aware uboot-utils had that function included
[8:05] * viridior checks
[8:05] <reis> i think (vaguely) that this could be achieved with the scrpit-example boot.scr shown here: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Booting
[8:05] <dpb> I'm actually getting a bit annoyed by Ubuntu, I want something better...
[8:05] <reis> du you think it is reasonable to set up an env-variable 'bootargs' that points to another init ?
[8:06] <viridior> _koen_: fw_setenv?
[8:06] <viridior> nah, that doesn't make sense
[8:06] <reis> k :/
[8:07] <viridior> reis: you can make a new squash image that points to whatever you want
[8:07] <viridior> autoboot.scr included
[8:09] <reis> yes. i will read on these topics
[8:09] <_koen_> viridior: yes, that one
[8:09] * viridior looks into it
[8:10] <viridior> _koen_: you are a god
[8:10] * viridior bows
[8:10] * viridior smacks himself for not looking at it earlier
[8:18] <reis> i have yet another question. regarding the ai keyboard. it is a pc105 model, and works fine in aios console as well as X. but the chroot X sees other keycodes for some keys, so for example the arrow keys do not work. is this related to hal, which cannot run in the chroot ?
[8:19] <viridior> i believe so
[8:20] <viridior> haven't looked into it yet myself ;)
[8:20] <reis> yes, so many things to look at :) great toy!
[8:20] <viridior> reis: _koen_ was right and you can change the uboot args via the linux command prompt with u-boot-tools
[8:21] <reis> that is very good news
[8:21] <reis> i am looking through the doxygen generated pdf for uboot-utils
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[8:49] <Gary13579> How well does the TB work for writing notes, via Xournal and such?
[9:01] <hyc> So we still don't have all the AI kernel patches ported forward to 2.6.31 or 2.6.32?
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[9:33] <torpor> jvs: did you get your touchbook yet?
[9:33] <jvs> torpor, yeah
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[9:34] <jvs> brb
[9:34] <torpor> and?
[9:34] <torpor> what do you think?
[9:35] <torpor> had it a few days?
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[9:51] <Gary13579> jvs_, torpor asked what you thought of it after you disappeared (incase you lost connection)
[9:51] <Gary13579> (and I'm wondering as well :))
[9:52] <jvs_> torpor is right when he says the case is cheap
[9:52] <jvs_> its plastic
[9:53] <jvs_> however, after calibrating the screen I'm fine with the device
[9:53] <jvs_> I'm using it at the university
[9:53] <Gary13579> overall happy with the device despite cheap plastic?
[9:56] <jvs_> yeah
[9:56] <jvs_> yeah
[9:56] <jvs_> I mean don't expect a business class device
[9:57] <jvs_> consider the price
[9:58] <Gary13579> have you tested the battery life, or tried using a stylus for handwritten notes in xournal (or even a paint program)?
[9:58] <Gary13579> I've got classes where the professor prohibits typing as it's "too loud", and if this device could replace it it'd be worth the price alone imho.
[9:59] <jvs_> not yet
[10:02] <Gary13579> ah well thanks for the comments, will probably order in a few days.
[10:04] <jvs_> cool
[10:05] <azaghal> The prices is not that small, though :)
[10:05] <jvs_> in euros it is :??
[10:05] <azaghal> Is the plastic good or bad, btw?
[10:06] <Gary13579> [10:52:53] <jvs_> torpor is right when he says the case is cheap
[10:06] <Gary13579> [10:52:56] <jvs_> its plastic
[10:06] <hyc> big deal, it's plastic. it's strong plastic.
[10:07] <jvs_> you have to be careful
[10:07] <hyc> I stepped on mine the other day (it was on the floor, charging)
[10:07] <hyc> it didn't even bend.
[10:07] <azaghal> Neo FreeRunner is plastic, as an example, but it's very robust.
[10:09] <hyc> whatever. people who worry about how cheap the case is probably shouldn't order one then. but IMO the case is not flimsy.
[10:10] <hyc> I weigh 160-170 lbs. I wouldn't step on my HP laptop, that's for sure...
[10:10] <hyc> (well, at this point I may jump up and down on it, the thing sucks so bad...)
[10:10] <Meizirkki> the hinge has gone broken 2 times and 2 different ways here
[10:11] <Meizirkki> ans one of the keys in the keyboard just suddenly fell off
[10:11] <hyc> that's pretty weird.
[10:11] <hyc> I've been typing pretty intesnively on the keyboard
[10:11] <Meizirkki> at least the top-part has stood together ...
[10:11] <hyc> nothing like that has happened to me
[10:13] <Meizirkki> hyc, it's in "heavy use" here i think. I take it everywhere with me, open and close the lid easily over 10 times per day....
[10:13] <hyc> the only problems I have are from running testing releases of the code....
[10:13] <hyc> I have a kernel here that hangs when I plugin a USB flash drive. quite annoying
[10:13] <Meizirkki> k
[10:13] <hyc> but again, that's what I get for experimenting with kernel options...
[10:14] <Meizirkki> even though i'm not satisfied with the build-quality i do like the device :)
[10:14] <Meizirkki> brb
[10:14] <hyc> I admit it makes a lot of creaking noises
[10:15] <Meizirkki> hyc, i haver had mine for 1.5 months
[10:15] <hyc> it's not as slick as a Sony VAIO case
[10:15] <Meizirkki> hyc, when did you get yours?
[10:15] <hyc> hmmm. August 20-something, I think
[10:15] <hyc> trying to remember
[10:15] <Meizirkki> k
[10:15] <Meizirkki> brb
[10:16] <hyc> yep. joined the forum Aug 20
[10:16] <hyc> I think I got one of the first sent out
[10:16] <hyc> ripper might have been before me
[10:17] <hyc> I also have a couple of the secret projects, but Gregoire doesn't want me to talk about them.
[10:18] <hyc> cool stuff, but it's tough sometimes having to keep quiet :P
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[10:23] <torpor> the thing is its damn cheap plastic
[10:23] <torpor> too supple.
[10:23] <torpor> nasty
[10:25] <hyc> not so sure about that. something too rigid would crack under stress
[10:25] <hyc> like a fall
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[16:04] <Guest78799> Anybody have recommendations on a USB SD card reader/writer that works with Linux and large SD cards?
[16:04] <evilnick> I've not heard of any that *won't* work with linux
[16:05] <Guest78799> The one I have currently doesn't seem to read large SD cards...
[16:05] <Guest78799> As I understand it, it may be a hw limitation, not Linux.
[16:05] <Gary13579> Guest78799, do you mean large SD cards, or SDHC cards?
[16:06] <Gary13579> SD and SDHC are different, SDHC increases the max size of the card
[16:06] <Gary13579> and some SD hardware won't work with SDHC cards
[16:06] <Guest78799> Not certain, I'm unfamiliar with them. Let me check
[16:06] <evilnick> If your card is SDHC but the reader is only SD then you won't be able to see your card
[16:07] <Guest78799> evilnick: Yes, the card is SDHC, so that is probably the issue.
[16:08] <Guest78799> The reader is just a generic reader that we had lying around, so I assume it's only SD compatible.
[16:08] <Gary13579> Any new SD card reader should support SDHC, so you've got a fairly large choice :p
[16:08] <Guest78799> Ok, guess I need to go buy one, then.
[16:08] <Guest78799> Anything special about how they're mounted in a card reader?
[16:09] <Gary13579> ? define mounted
[16:09] <Guest78799> software mounted
[16:10] <Gary13579> no, pretty much any USB SD card reader that's worth 2 cents just acts like a standard USB Mass Storage device
[16:10] <Gary13579> which linux will work with
[16:10] <Guest78799> Ok, that's what I was hoping.
[16:10] <Gary13579> Guest78799, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29688
[16:10] <Gary13579> (if you're looking for cheap functional stuff)
[16:11] <Gary13579> unfortunately if you run down to your local store you'll end up paying 5 times that
[16:12] <Guest78799> That's awesome, Gary! Free shipping too! May spend the 5X to have one tomorrow.
[16:12] <Guest78799> Gary, have you ordered there before?
[16:12] <Gary13579> Yeah, but depending on where you live it will take ages to get it.
[16:13] <Gary13579> Yeah I have, it's a cheap Chinese knock off site based in Hong Kong. It's cheap, low quality Chinese parts (will suit your Touch Book well!)
[16:13] <Gary13579> (sorry, I had to)
[16:13] <evilnick> Hehehehe
[16:13] <Gary13579> Do you live in the US, Guest78799 ?
[16:13] <Guest78799> Yes
[16:13] <Guest78799> cheap is fine, if it's functional
[16:14] <Gary13579> It takes a week or two to get it then
[16:14] <Gary13579> 2 weeks last time I ordered, but with US holidays coming up customs is going to be booked and could take up to a month :p
[16:14] * evilnick agrees entirely with Gary13579 on DX
[16:14] <evilnick> cheap but can take forever to arrive
[16:14] <Gary13579> evilnick, it's an amazing site for so many things, but don't order if you're in a hurry
[16:14] <Gary13579> or, buy anything complex/way too cheap compared to what it costs to produce
[16:15] <evilnick> But do buy the LED pigs, as they are amazing
[16:15] <Guest78799> LED pigs? They might be fun for a Christmas party at work.
[16:15] <Gary13579> eg, I saw a 12,000 mAh USB battery pack, then saw a review where someone opened it up, and got this
[16:15] <Gary13579> http://ugh.ru/rs/12000mAh1s.jpg
[16:16] <Gary13579> the two bottom silver things are 1000mah batteries, so the entire unit is 2Ah, not 12Ah
[16:16] <Gary13579> and the top rusted things are iron to make the thing heavier
[16:16] <Guest78799> heh
[16:17] <Gary13579> don't let that scare you off from DX though, they've got a lot of decent products
[16:17] <Guest78799> Ok. I'm willing to risk $2.03
[16:17] <Gary13579> something as simple as an SDHC reader costs $0.10 to produce so
[16:17] <Gary13579> imho I'd just run down to the store and pay $10 to have it tomorrow :p
[16:17] <Gary13579> not worth the risk of waiting a month
[16:17] <Guest78799> Yeah, I'll probably do both.
[16:18] <Guest78799> Except that tomorrow will suck to be shopping.
[16:19] <Gary13579> haha right
[16:20] <Gary13579> Guest78799, don't order yet
[16:21] <Guest78799> A PCMCIA wifi card would probably be too complex to ask for, right?
[16:21] <Gary13579> Guest78799, get something like this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10316
[16:21] <Gary13579> which has support for pretty much any card you'll need
[16:22] <Guest78799> Ok
[16:22] <Gary13579> and I personally wouldn't trust putting something like a PCMCIA card from DX in my notebook
[16:22] <Guest78799> Yeah
[16:23] <Gary13579> but, they do have em :p
[16:23] <Gary13579> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13731
[16:23] <Guest78799> I'll look around for other knick-knacks
[16:23] <Gary13579> Guest78799, careful casually browsing DX
[16:23] <Gary13579> you'll look at the clock 4 hours later wondering what the hell happened
[16:24] <Guest78799> lol
[16:25] <Guest78799> http://xkcd.com/214/
[16:26] <Gary13579> Guest78799, exactly. I do it on wikipedia worse, but DX has *so* much that it's hard to stop
[16:26] <Guest78799> Yep. Ok, thanks for the pointers
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[16:29] <Guest78799> Once I have the reader and some more SDHC cards, I'll experiment more on my TB.
[16:29] <Gary13579> How do you like your TB, btw?
[16:30] <Gary13579> I haven't ordered yet, and have been asking everyone what they thought since there are very few reviews out there
[16:30] <Guest78799> Pretty well, for the most part. Several bugs that I wish were fixed before release, but I've been pleased with the support.
[16:31] <Gary13579> ah I don't really care about the software, more worried about the case/keyboard/touchscreen
[16:32] <Guest78799> Well, the kb is small, but I haven't found a netbook yet that isn't. Touchscreen will be better once I get it calibrated.
[16:32] <Gary13579> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3195
[16:32] <Gary13579> wow I need this
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[16:33] <Gary13579> Guest78799, have you tried using the touchscreen for writing? like open up a drawing program and using the stylus.
[16:33] <viridior> anybody know of which the aios kernel is using; aufs, aufs2, or unionfs?
[16:35] <Guest78799> viridior: I believe it's aufs, but wouldn't know about aufs/aufs2
[16:35] <Guest78799> I could check... :)
[16:35] <Guest78799> / is mounted as aufs
[16:37] <Guest78799> Gary, for writing, it's okay, but I believe there's still an outstanding bug that will help a lot.
[16:38] <Guest78799> I wouldn't recommend it yet for people looking to be productive with it.
[16:39] <Gary13579> I'm a hacker by heart, I'd end up sitting down to write and end up submitting/fixes 5 bugs.
[16:39] <Gary13579> which, is how I prefer things :)
[16:40] <Guest78799> Yeah, I'm getting back into that habit now. :)
[16:41] <Guest78799> The SD cards will help me to submit more fixes than bugs (crossing fingers).
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[16:41] <Gary13579> Software doesn't really bug me tho, I know that can and will be fixed. I'm just paranoid about buying hardware.
[16:42] <Guest78799> I'm not really the person to ask about hw.
[16:43] <Guest78799> I like what I got, but I'm comparing against a 10-year-old laptop.
[16:44] <viridior> I've been building Gentoo on the ARMv7a Cortex-a8 for the last year, its a nice SoC. As far as the touchbook goes, its a decent well-rounded implementation imho
[16:45] <viridior> is the the casing is a little cheap as is the keyboard. The weights in the front could have been glued better, but otherwise its fine
[16:45] <viridior> im not a fan of AIOS, but its getting better and I think it will work well for a light netbook
[16:45] <Guest78799> I'm having a little trouble with the pieces staying snugly attached.
[16:46] <Gary13579> Yeah, I know the OMAP3 chip is nice, I'm not worrying about that at all. but, I've also used that before and loved the platform :p.
[16:47] <Gary13579> Just the LCD/touchscreen module/keyboard/case/usb/audio sockets etc, all brand new to me
[16:47] <Guest78799> The touchscreen seems great
[16:48] <Guest78799> The audio is still buggy, and I think the kb could be better integrated into the software and power management.
[16:48] <viridior> this is my first touchscreen, so i dont know how to judge it... it works, but i wish it would work a little better. there is an annoying thing with usb devices being attached that causes mine to lock up sometimes, but that should be a kernel issue, audio needs work (kernel issue).
[16:49] <Guest78799> Yes. There seems to be a small set of issues that are causing all the problems.
[16:49] <Guest78799> All seem like resolvable driver issues.
[16:53] <Gary13579> Guest78799, augh I hope you know I've already wasted an hour on DX now
[16:54] <Guest78799> my bad
[16:54] <Gary13579> yes, shame on you for mentioning a similar product :(
[16:55] * Guest78799 is ashamed
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[20:57] <vishal> Hey is the usb working with the OE build ? In my case the drivers are getting initialized properly but the hub is not getting detected
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[22:05] <vishal> Hey is the usb working with the OE build ? In my case the drivers are getting initialized properly but the hub is not getting detecte
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[22:53] <vishal> Hey is the usb working with the OE build ? In my case the drivers are getting initialized properly but the hub is not getting detected
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[23:36] <DJWillis> vishal: mainline OE or the AIOS vairent?
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[23:52] <vishal> DJWillis: I have tried AIOS VARIENT
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[23:53] <vishal> DJWillis: I have taken the linux-omap kernel and applied all the pathces . I am interested only in the kernel so I have patched with all the patches listed .
[23:54] <vishal> DJWillis:The ehci-omap is not detecting the 7 port hub
[23:55] <DJWillis> vishal: and your sure you using the same checkout/branch etc. as the AIOS kernel? I assume everything is fine with a default image?
[23:56] <vishal> DjWillis:I have cheked out the main 2.6.299 linux-omap kernel and applied all the patches in the list.I think everything is alright
[23:57] <vishal> DJWillis:with The default image HUb is detected .
[23:57] <vishal> With AIOS is it working ?
[23:57] <vishal> default image from sdcard which came from AI

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