#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-11-18

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * Zygo (i=startkey@startkeylogger.hungrycats.org) has joined #touchbook
[0:04] <jvs> argh
[0:05] <jvs> my devices are is stuck at customs for two days now
[0:05] <jvs> alexandre, you didn't hide drugs in the touchbook, did you? :p
[0:05] * leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) has joined #touchbook
[0:05] * drantin hides behind a crate, peeking out at jvs
[0:06] * Vito89 (n=quassel@ Quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.")
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[0:07] <dpb> snlemons: do both of the access points work on other devices alright?
[0:08] <snlemons> dpb: yeah, lots of others.
[0:09] <dpb> and the unencrypted one has a dhcp daemon running also?
[0:10] <snlemons> yeah. even tried the WPA one with encryption turned off.
[0:11] <snlemons> and with WEP.
[0:12] <dpb> ok, I'm out of ideas then
[0:13] <snlemons> dpb: you and me both. I was sure the reinstall would fix it.
[0:16] <dpb> one thing you could try is take the usb wireless dongle out of the device and test it on some other computer
[0:16] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #touchbook
[0:17] <snlemons> oh, good idea.
[0:20] <dpb> (of course you need to find the driver for it somewhere)
[0:22] <snlemons> yeah, any idea where I might find one?
[0:25] <dpb> There's some 3070 driver at ralinks homepage: http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2
[0:26] <dpb> not quite sure if that's the correct one for the dongle
[0:34] <snlemons> worth a try. thanks.
[0:38] * Vito89_ (n=quassel@ has joined #touchbook
[0:38] * Vito89 (n=quassel@ Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[0:53] * snlemons (n=snlemons@c-24-60-77-165.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving")
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[1:12] * Vito89_ (n=quassel@ Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[1:12] * oly (n=oly@82-34-240-201.cable.ubr02.maid.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #touchbook
[1:21] * DJW|Home is now known as DJWillis
[1:22] * snlemons (n=snlemons@c-24-60-77-165.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[1:23] <snlemons> gregoiregentil, dpb: I tried the card in another machine using the official ralink drivers and it still doesn't pull an IP on any network.
[1:24] <snlemons> it seems to do WPA alright on this machine (or at least it doesn't hang on anything WPA-related.)
[1:28] <snlemons> oh, interesting. it shows 2 frames recieved successfully and 13 recieved with CRC errors.
[1:28] <snlemons> now 28 with errors. hm...
[1:43] <DJWillis> Corsac: hows the Xfce 4.6 stuff you have been messing with looking, any interesting patches?
[1:44] <DJWillis> snlemons: tried using the latest compat-wireless stable?
[1:48] <snlemons> DJWillis: sorry, not sure what you mean.
[1:49] <DJWillis> snlemons: for the wireless, have you tried building the latest driver from the Linux-Wireless tree with the backports for your kernel?
[1:50] <snlemons> DJWillis: I haven't, no. not sure where to begin with that. I had hoped the latest OS included the latest wireless drivers.
[1:51] <DJWillis> snlemons: Ahhh, I don't even have a Touchbook but I use the compat-wireless code on a few other devices and the latest stack is in a good place, sorry, from reading up I assumed your ok build kernels and the like, sorry about that.
[1:53] <snlemons> yeah, I'm not completely new to linux and I'm a programmer in real life, but I'm not good with hardware and system-level stuff.
[1:54] <snlemons> but I don't see how compiling drivers on my TB would change the fact that it can't pull an IP on my other machines, either. seems very likely to me that it's a hardware issue, given this new information.
[1:58] * Vito89 (n=quassel@ Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[2:00] * snlemons (n=snlemons@c-24-60-77-165.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[2:19] * snlemons (n=snlemons@c-24-60-77-165.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[2:22] * Vito89 (n=quassel@ has joined #touchbook
[2:23] <snlemons> DJWillis: so, given our previous conversation it seems likely you'd know this. I need to compile the drivers for this other card I want to try on my TB. it wants to know the "kernel source include path". know where that would be on the TB?
[2:27] * MikeEvans (n=MikeEvan@tandem.force9.co.uk) has joined #touchbook
[2:42] * snlemons is now known as snlemons-sleep
[2:53] * edgar (n=edgar@p5DC019AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("http://irc2go.com/")
[3:01] * dirk2 (n=dirk@p5B0404F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #touchbook
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[6:03] * vishal (i=7aa66a44@gateway/web/freenode/x-oiaphtanitsdmkka) has joined #touchbook
[6:03] <vishal> hello everyone .Has anyone tried android on touchbook ?
[6:04] <vishal> ?
[6:06] <dpb> Haven't heard about anyone succeeding. Android requires quite a hacked kernel, it's hard to port the patches.
[6:06] <Corsac> DJWillis: I mainly dropped patches which didn't apply :)
[6:07] <dpb> A spammer in the forums again.. :/
[6:08] * vishal (i=7aa66a44@gateway/web/freenode/x-oiaphtanitsdmkka) Quit ("Page closed")
[6:09] * vishal (i=7aa66a44@gateway/web/freenode/x-usrdzehlbfghgmnn) has joined #touchbook
[6:11] <vishal> has anyone got android on touchbook ?
[6:11] <DJWillis> Corsac: just wondering what needs to be applied to the mainline Xfce recipies in OE (if anything)
[6:12] <dpb> vishal: Read the log, you already got an answer.
[6:12] <Corsac> DJWillis: nothing I think
[6:18] * MMlosh (n=MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:c172:59e4:45c4:ae72) has joined #touchbook
[6:34] * evilnick_B (i=0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) has joined #touchbook
[7:02] * vishal (i=7aa66a44@gateway/web/freenode/x-usrdzehlbfghgmnn) Quit ("Page closed")
[7:04] * shtylman_ (n=ubuntu@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-wxpipjrenlmhqgqx) has joined #touchbook
[7:10] * MMlosh (n=MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:c172:59e4:45c4:ae72) Quit ("Bye...")
[7:17] * Vito89 (n=quassel@ Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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[7:32] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[7:34] * shtylman_ (n=ubuntu@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-wxpipjrenlmhqgqx) Quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
[7:44] * FIN__Master (i=pohja@hopeatilhi.cs.tut.fi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[7:52] * FIN__Master (i=pohja@hopeatilhi.cs.tut.fi) has joined #touchbook
[8:00] * torpor (n=w1x@88-117-0-207.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #touchbook
[8:03] <torpor> anyone run tbWakeBreaker?
[8:03] * nullm0dem (n=quassel@65-183-140-170-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[8:44] * leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[8:45] * Meiz_TB (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #touchbook
[8:46] <Meiz_TB> Anyone know's how to get sound working?
[8:46] <Meiz_TB> on ubuntu
[8:46] <Meiz_TB> what are the tricks in AI OS for it?
[8:50] <Meiz_TB> alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or directory
[8:55] * leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) has joined #touchbook
[8:59] <FIN__Master> Meiz_TB: Do you know is the Mer improving? It seemed interesting
[9:00] <ryuo> Meiz_TB, your user doesn't have sufficient permissions
[9:01] <ryuo> or so i thought?
[9:10] * alexandre (n=alexandr@c-76-21-41-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
[9:11] <Meiz_TB> FIN__Master, It is
[9:11] * rrebel__ (n=rebel@cpe-66-65-114-228.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #touchbook
[9:12] <Meiz_TB> ryuo, the same happens with root permissions
[9:12] * rrebel_ (n=rebel@cpe-66-65-114-228.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[9:15] <gregoiregentil> Meiz_TB: do you have something like that: http://git.alwaysinnovating.com/cgit.cgi/ai.openembedded.dev/tree/ai/postprocess/etc/asound.state
[9:15] * MMlosh (n=MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:a894:f28e:bf60:5263) has joined #touchbook
[9:16] <Meiz_TB> gregoiregentil, thanks, will try
[9:17] <torpor> btw, for those who want to compile on the device, you need to 'ikpg install libc6-dev' to get it working again
[9:17] * shtylman_ (n=ubuntu@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-nugyzvdsvgqnmefi) has joined #touchbook
[9:18] <shtylman_> are their plans to make this thing charge when it isn't on?
[9:18] <shtylman_> I find it very much a design flaw that it can't charge when off
[9:20] <ryuo> Meiz_TB, !
[9:20] <ryuo> Meiz_TB, try running alsactl store as root?
[9:20] <torpor> gregoiregentil: can you explain the libc decision and plans for the next release? is this going to change?
[9:21] <ryuo> ipkg?
[9:21] <ryuo> lol
[9:22] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #touchbook
[9:22] <gregoiregentil> torpor: we had too many problems when upgrading to libc2.9 so we stayed with 2.6.1. I'm trying again 2.9 right now for next release to see if I have the same trouble or not. Depending of the result, I will upgrade or not
[9:22] <ryuo> hm
[9:22] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, it's not a design flaw, ARM devices have always been like that..
[9:23] <torpor> ok, thx for the info gregoiregentil
[9:23] <ryuo> gregoiregentil, is it normal for ARM glibc to have issues with a program that uses 16-bit wide strings?
[9:24] <Meiz_TB> ryuo, thanks
[9:24] <ryuo> i've never encountered that problem on x86
[9:24] <gregoiregentil> ryuo: I don't know
[9:24] <Meiz_TB> alsactl store: alsactl: save_state:1502: No soundcards found...
[9:24] <ryuo> hm
[9:24] <ryuo> Ah
[9:24] <ryuo> thats your problem
[9:24] <Meiz_TB> so i need just more files from AI OS
[9:24] <ryuo> ALSA doesn't pick up any drivers
[9:24] <Meiz_TB> i have copied the whole /usr/share/alsa ... what's next ?
[9:24] * ryuo shrugs.
[9:25] <ryuo> i'm guessing you need a kernel module
[9:25] <shtylman_> Meiz_TB: it is a design flaw... whether or not it is TB specific is another problem... also... my ihpone does not need to be on to charge
[9:25] <ryuo> i'm used to just needing my ALSA driver built in or as a module
[9:25] <ryuo> in x86 kernel
[9:25] <ryuo> not sure if ARM is different
[9:25] <shtylman_> the probleem is that if the device is on it takes forever to charge
[9:26] <torpor> shtylman_: your iphone is on always.
[9:26] <Meiz_TB> ryuo, i'm using AI OS kernel and modules
[9:26] <ryuo> okay then i don't know.
[9:26] <shtylman_> torpor: not when it runs out of battery
[9:26] <ryuo> i'm used to my ALSA working once i find the right module
[9:26] <torpor> yes
[9:26] <shtylman_> when it is out of battery...it is out of battery... and can't be on
[9:26] <ryuo> usually its snd-hda-intel
[9:26] <torpor> you might notice that when it completely runs out of battery, it takes a loooong time to recharge again.
[9:27] <shtylman_> torpor: not true
[9:27] <shtylman_> it doesn't take a "looooong" time
[9:27] <torpor> even when the iphone is 'off' the arm is in suspended mode so it can control the power supply peripherals.
[9:27] <shtylman_> ive had it go to 0 battery many times
[9:27] <torpor> when it runs out of juice, it needs to charge a while before it will wake up
[9:27] <ryuo> torpor, i assume all machines have some kind of subsystem to recharge while "off"
[9:27] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, it doesn't really affect the charging time. I have used 14A charger and it still too forever, so ii guess there must be a good control of the charging
[9:27] <shtylman_> yea
[9:27] <ryuo> usually off means "running in a low level state"
[9:28] <shtylman_> that seems like it needs to be dealt with
[9:28] <torpor> we had the same problem with openmoko
[9:28] <shtylman_> are there plans for a major hardware revision in the pipeline
[9:28] <torpor> as a result i have two OM phones that will not wake up
[9:28] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, or maybe it's designed to be like that!
[9:29] <shtylman_> cause as it stands the TB is not very usable generally
[9:29] <ryuo> torpor, you know anything about 32 bit and 16 bit wide strings on ARM?
[9:29] <shtylman_> Meiz_TB: that may be true...but why
[9:29] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, 18A batteries do tajke forever to charge
[9:29] <shtylman_> true
[9:29] <gregoiregentil> That's not correct. The iPhone doesn't charge when it's off
[9:29] * oly (n=oly@82-34-240-201.cable.ubr02.maid.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
[9:29] <torpor> it got more usable for me after i did the update. at least no more screen blanking is happening. okay, other weird things, but at least the screen is alive.
[9:29] <shtylman_> why is everything about how the iphone does it?
[9:30] <shtylman_> just cause the iphone doesn't charge whene off doesn't mean nothing else can
[9:30] <torpor> ryuo: only that if your compiler thinks it should generate THUMB instructions, glibc will die.
[9:30] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, you started comparing tb to iphone
[9:30] <shtylman_> the TB is NOT a phone... and I don't expect it to behave as such
[9:30] <gregoiregentil> there is unfortunately no point of over-current the device. The maximum current going to the battery is handled by the TI chip and there is a design limit of the chip
[9:30] <ryuo> torpor, i tried to compile a C program that only uses 16-bit wide strings and i got linker errors on AIOS
[9:30] <torpor> yeah
[9:30] <ryuo> about incompatible wchar_T
[9:30] <torpor> that makes sense: you should.
[9:30] <ryuo> works fine with x86 though
[9:31] <shtylman_> Meiz_TB: right... because thats the comment the docs say when explaining why it doesn't charrge when off
[9:31] <gregoiregentil> shtylman_: it's not a phone, I agree, but it's using a very similar architecture
[9:31] <ryuo> so is there anything i can do to make it work?
[9:31] <torpor> yeah but GCC ARM is very touchy about thumb mode and mixed width instructions
[9:31] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, what doc..?
[9:31] <ryuo> its my favorite program =/
[9:31] <torpor> ryuo: don't use 16bit strings.
[9:31] <shtylman_> gregoiregentil: indeed that is the case but im just saying from a usability perspective it would be something to coonsider
[9:31] <ryuo> well
[9:31] <mjr> wchar_t is 32-bit on glibc, period
[9:31] <ryuo> not my call
[9:31] <torpor> you're porting something?
[9:31] <koen> thumb/thumb2 is a bad idea unless you have the right combo of gcc/binutils/glibc and cflags
[9:31] <shtylman_> Meiz_TB: the user manual I believe
[9:32] <ryuo> i was just trying to compile it on ARM
[9:32] <ryuo> its a program called code-browser
[9:32] <ryuo> i used it on x86 linux as is without problems
[9:32] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, i don't think so..
[9:32] <torpor> whats it do?
[9:32] <ryuo> torpor, text editor.
[9:32] <ryuo> basically
[9:32] <torpor> for browsing code?
[9:32] <ryuo> http://tibleiz.net/code-browser/
[9:33] <torpor> if you want something nice for browsing code, get cscope.
[9:33] <ryuo> it allows you to make folds for custom browsing
[9:33] <Meiz_TB> shtylman_, there are lots of things in the world that can't be exactly like you want, and if your netbook can't be off while charging.. i really think it's a one you can live with
[9:33] <torpor> i put it on my tb last night, finally made the TB a viable development device for me .. ;)
[9:33] <ryuo> wchar_t... i still prefer regular 'char'
[9:33] <ryuo> seems to be the most portable choice
[9:33] <torpor> its a windows'ism
[9:34] <ryuo> utf-8 seems better in general
[9:34] <shtylman_> Meiz_TB: that might be the case...
[9:34] <torpor> Meiz_TB: i think shtylman_ is missing the point: ALL ARM devices behave like the touchbook. its just that most ARM devices have the code to enable suspended-hibernation mode that does "charging while 'off'"
[9:34] <mjr> hmm, or could it be that the AI libc uses utf-16 for wchar_t? *shiver*
[9:34] <torpor> thus, i imagine we will see this issue go away soon.
[9:34] <mjr> ryuo, often the case
[9:34] <shtylman_> im just trying to point out things that I have noticed with the TB hardware wise
[9:34] <torpor> sure
[9:34] <ryuo> mjr, no... it wouldn't let me compile 16-bit wchar_t but it accepts 32-bit wchar_t
[9:35] <ryuo> well it'd compile but it would not link
[9:35] <shtylman_> gregoiregentil: will there be a version of the base that has a more weight so that the support brackets arn't needed?
[9:35] <mjr> ryuo, yeah, that's what I thought. Now I only wonder what system do you use on x86 linux that allows for 16-bit wchar_t's :9
[9:35] <ryuo> glibc...
[9:35] <gregoiregentil> support brackets: you mean counter balance?
[9:35] <ryuo> it links fine with 16-bit, strangely
[9:35] <torpor> shtylman_: there is a plastic part being manufactured that fixes the tits-over-ass behaviour
[9:36] <shtylman_> I know
[9:36] <ryuo> torpor, its like ridin the tilter world ride!
[9:36] <shtylman_> but thats stupid
[9:36] <ryuo> LOL
[9:36] <ryuo> my TB acts like a see-saw :P
[9:36] <torpor> it was definitely the stupidest thing i've ever seen.
[9:36] <torpor> brand new netbook, unpack it, puti t on the table, watch it go over on its back.
[9:36] <gregoiregentil> with the counter balance plastic part, actually, I intend to reduce the counter weight in the bottom part as it's less needed.
[9:36] <mjr> at the very least the glibc default is 32-bit, I don't know if it can be compiled for 16-bit (quite possibly) or if you can choose it by some symbol magic, but really, you shouldn't, you'll just screw stuff up since 32-bit wchar_t is the shit on GNU/Linux (and most other systems except Windows)
[9:37] <shtylman_> and was wondering if there was a base change in the plans for just fix the issue so that using it in a lap would not suck
[9:37] <torpor> i imagine its very difficult to re-tool the moulds for the plastic injection process
[9:37] <torpor> and *expensive* too
[9:37] <shtylman_> the plastic part isn't a counter balance...its a foot iirc
[9:37] <torpor> so probalby the case is just going to get a duct-tape fix
[9:37] <ryuo> mjr, yea. i abandoned the program...
[9:37] <ryuo> because of that behavior
[9:37] <shtylman_> but how usable/effective will that be in a lap?
[9:38] <ryuo> still is it really worth using wchar_t? most libraries expect old school char
[9:38] <mjr> ryuo, often, it really isn't
[9:38] <shtylman_> also...something else I noticed was that the screen bevel covers my screen
[9:39] <ryuo> mjr, for space reasons?
[9:39] <mjr> ryuo, many use utf-8 encoded normal char arrays in lieu. For instance gtk+...
[9:39] <shtylman_> makes it hard to touch the edges as well as see the very edge
[9:39] <ryuo> mjr, 'a' is 4 bytes in wchar_t but only 1 in char
[9:39] <shtylman_> also a usability thing
[9:39] <ryuo> i usually expect to use utf-8/ascii
[9:39] <torpor> i'm hoping there will be a bit more of a review process in the next AI hardware project. seems to me that things didn't get as much attention as needed for a few things. the case plastic is too supple, for example, the design allows for faults during assembly, and so on ..
[9:39] <mjr> ryuo, also because wchar_t can be a bit awkward sometimes
[9:39] <leinir> shtylman_: one point is, this is an arm device - you shouldn't be turning it off at all... ever ;)
[9:40] <shtylman_> how come the bottom battery can charge then :)
[9:40] * alexandre (n=alexandr@c-98-210-206-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[9:40] <leinir> shtylman_: because that isn't technically part of the device :)
[9:40] <torpor> shtylman_: it has its own charging circuitry, whereas the tablet battery is controlled by the main processor.
[9:40] <leinir> The bottom part is just an external keyboard and an extra battery pack, nothing more and nothing less :)
[9:40] <shtylman_> torpor: indeed
[9:41] <shtylman_> so what happens right now if I run out of juice and just try to charge the top part
[9:41] <shtylman_> independent of the bottom?
[9:41] <ryuo> mjr, yea.. i got the impression the developer mainly works with x86 windows.
[9:41] <torpor> you might find that it takes a very long time before it turns back on again. just like your iphone.
[9:41] <shtylman_> torpor: yes...I am most displeased with the hardware design and build quality
[9:41] <ryuo> mjr, his program does port to linux through GTK+
[9:41] <shtylman_> torpor: gotcha
[9:42] <ryuo> i think its intentional...
[9:42] <torpor> hardware design and manufacture isn't easy. its expensive.
[9:42] <ryuo> M$ loves to make porting hell.
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[9:42] <mjr> ryuo, well, as I said gtk+ uses utf-8-encoded normal strings...
[9:42] <torpor> instead of codebrowser, use cscope. its much better for you anyway. don't want to develop any nasty GUI habits.. ;)
[9:43] <ryuo> mjr, he seems to use something else.
[9:43] <ryuo> anyway
[9:43] <mjr> the glib utility library has a bunch of useful stuff to deal with some conversions and stuff
[9:43] <torpor> did anyone try tbWakeBreaker on their touchbook yet? i'm curious if it works on other touchbooks.! :)
[9:44] <ryuo> torpor, ah. i've grown more fond of C as i learned more..
[9:44] <shtylman_> gregoiregentil: are you planning on making a second device?
[9:44] <torpor> C is lovely.
[9:44] <ryuo> with the right setup, C is very tolerable..
[9:44] <mjr> ryuo, indeed he probably uses and assumes utf-16 wchar_t which is what windows does... The assumption, of course, would be nonportable.
[9:44] <ryuo> the only features i really found useful from C++ i can replicate in C.
[9:44] <ryuo> namely, "&"
[9:44] <ryuo> for enforced "pass by reference"
[9:45] <ryuo> it feels strange to dereference a pointer but it'll do
[9:45] <torpor> struct { somefunptr *myfun(thisstruct_t thestruct); thisstruct_t *next } thisstruct_t; ;// love
[9:45] <ryuo> mjr, yea...
[9:45] <ryuo> torpor, haha :P
[9:46] <ryuo> forgot typedef though lol
[9:46] <torpor> d'oh! thats what compilers are for.
[9:46] <ryuo> i'm working with C99 dialect.
[9:46] <torpor> so come on guys, someone tell me they can compile and run tbWakeBreaker, damnit!!!
[9:46] <torpor> ryuo: at work i have to treat warnings as errors and turn all warnings on, -std=C99
[9:47] <ryuo> -Wall -Wextra -Werror? ;)
[9:47] <torpor> yup
[9:47] <ryuo> those don't turn on ALL warnings
[9:47] <torpor> i know
[9:47] <ryuo> would be nice if there was a flag for turning on every warning just to see what GCC has.
[9:47] <ryuo> lol
[9:47] <torpor> too lazy to type out all the hints, but you get the point...
[9:48] <ryuo> i find restrict pointless in C99...
[9:48] <ryuo> it may optimize but i don't know how to use it effectively
[9:48] <shtylman_> oh...and for those interested...I highly recommend following ubuntu on arm
[9:48] <shtylman_> they have OEMs that are interested and are deff hhaving a big push with it
[9:49] * tommd (n=Thomas_D@dhcp-223-19.seas.pdx.edu) has joined #touchbook
[9:49] <torpor> i'd put ubuntu on the touchbook immediately, but i want DSP and GL support.
[9:49] <torpor> and i'll be damned if i wanna wait for ubuntu-arm to include it.
[9:49] <shtylman_> ARM itself supports ubuntu's efforts (I think that is true about openembedded as well...)
[9:49] <shtylman_> torpor: im gonna look at that when I get back from UDS (ubuntu developer summit)
[9:50] <shtylman_> im running ubuntu on TB right now... and yes... GL support is something I deerly miss
[9:50] <ryuo> VLA, limited use but valid c99...
[9:50] <ryuo> i found one usage for variadic macros
[9:50] <ryuo> #define eprintf(...) fprintf(stderr,__VA_ARGS__)
[9:51] * nhg (n=a0864305@nat/ti/x-aywmvbhtsfzarvlc) has joined #touchbook
[9:51] <torpor> i love me some variadic macros ..
[9:51] <ryuo> torpor, i wrote a scanf style function once that uses regular expression sub-expressions from POSIX to allocate new strings... lol
[9:51] <torpor> yikes.
[9:52] <ryuo> i called it rescan
[9:52] <ryuo> regular expression scan
[9:52] <ryuo> i think i still got the source somewhere
[9:52] <ryuo> if you would like to see it lol
[9:52] <torpor> noooo thanks
[9:52] <ryuo> LOL k
[9:53] <torpor> i would like you to get the TbWakeBreaker code put it on your TB compile it and run it.
[9:53] <ryuo> it was a wild idea i had
[9:53] <ryuo> i actually implemented it lol
[9:53] <ryuo> i was using it to extract strings from a line for parsing config files
[9:54] <ryuo> i did learn one thing i found valuable from OO languages.
[9:54] <ryuo> i try to create organized structs for managing difficult tasks
[9:55] <ryuo> like C strings
[9:55] <ryuo> use my own if i don't want to use glib for some reason
[9:55] <ryuo> i usually avoid glib unless i'm designing GTK+ program
[9:58] * shtylman_ (n=ubuntu@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-nugyzvdsvgqnmefi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[10:02] * Vito89 (n=quassel@gw.loccal.net) has joined #touchbook
[10:06] <torpor> https://secure.ziilabs.com/forum/recent.aspx
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[10:39] * Meiz_TB (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:03] * shtylman_ (n=ubuntu@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-szlwgvgswzbhyqae) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[11:11] <torpor> what ziilabs code is gpl2?
[11:23] <torpor> i have had a lengthy conversation with andrew @ ziilabs about this issue too, and he has confirmed that there is contention over the issue internally at ziilabs.
[11:32] * tom39329 (i=tomfitzy@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk) has left #touchbook
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[11:58] <ryuo> torpor, eh?
[11:59] <torpor> sorry ryuo wrong window
[11:59] <torpor> having a GPL fight.
[11:59] * torpor sings "Fish was RED, fish was RED, lovely fish was RED .."
[11:59] <torpor> damnit
[12:00] <ryuo> GPL fight?
[12:00] <torpor> yeah, ziilabs have a GPL problem.
[12:01] * mturquet1e (n=mturquet@adsl-76-249-224-33.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #touchbook
[12:01] <ryuo> wonder what thats all about
[12:02] <torpor> nothing really, please ignore. :)
[12:02] <torpor> lets just say that this is one area where the touchbook really shines over the other devices on my table.
[12:03] <ryuo> torpor, don't forget its also a portable version of the "tilter world" :P
[12:03] <torpor> whirl, i think, is the word you're looking for
[12:03] <torpor> and yes.
[12:03] <ryuo> oh :P
[12:04] <torpor> i cannot forget that easily, as i am reminded of it every time i put my finger on the thing to press a button.
[12:04] <ryuo> yea... its annoying but i'll wait... lol
[12:04] <ryuo> hm
[12:04] <ryuo> i think greg could make a lil money if he sold a metal stand for it to attach to for "desktop" docking :P
[12:05] <ryuo> would be cool if i had a metal device to dock it on like a stand lol
[12:07] * tommd (n=Thomas_D@dhcp-223-19.seas.pdx.edu) Quit (Connection timed out)
[12:15] <DJWillis> torpor: touchbook improving in your eyes?
[12:15] <torpor> DJWillis: a little, it was very comforting to complete a port *on the device* last night in a few hours ..
[12:16] <torpor> and i have to say that the Touchbook has at least fed my desire to get things ready for Pandora.
[12:17] <torpor> however, some issues remain: power management, bugs with tablet mode being done automatically somehow, and .. of course .. the hardware issues.
[12:18] <DJWillis> torpor: I can see the attraction of that ;). I need to sort the packaging for the on device build system. I still want to get a TB to mess on; I have become very tolerant of hardware quirks ;-)
[12:18] <torpor> heh heh
[12:18] <torpor> you sure have!
[12:19] <torpor> would be really, really special if we could somehow put some nice little GL ES game sources on the pandora image from day one, and have it "Just Work" to type 'make'.
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[12:20] <torpor> its almost like that on the Touchbook right now .. I was quite delighted with /usr/bin/ai/examples/teapot ..
[12:20] <torpor> of course, this broke with the last OS release, but hopefully it won't get ignored in the future.
[12:20] * coucouf (n=quassel@seg75-7-88-164-181-178.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #touchbook
[12:21] <DJWillis> torpor: I also want to talk to gregoiregentil about the GL wrapper lib on the TB. I have that nasty feeling that we are upto 3 wrapper libs ;)
[12:21] <torpor> what do you want to know, i can look at it for you right now..
[12:21] <torpor> i haven't investigated it, though ..
[12:23] <DJWillis> torpor: not looked at it myself, I just wondering is a good solid OMAP3530 GLes wrapper is way to go not one for the Pandora, some for the Beagle, one for the TB etc.
[12:23] <torpor> oh like a combined one that works on all 3?
[12:23] <torpor> i think there is a licensing issue ..
[12:24] <DJWillis> torpor: well it would be trivial to do, I am not talking about the PowerVR drivers, that's all sorted (all 3 are on the same drivers anyway), I am talking about the easy wrapper libs that are doing the rounds.
[12:24] <torpor> ah you mean the OpenGL -> GLES wrapper?
[12:25] <DJWillis> torpor: the few of them, yep and a few other tweaks ontop that seem to be doing the rounds.
[12:25] <torpor> i see
[12:28] <DJWillis> torpor: just don't want to see lots of same'but'different platform stuff ;).
[12:28] <torpor> i concur it would be good to coordinate this
[12:28] <torpor> in case you are interested: http://paste.lisp.org/display/90674#1
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[12:31] <torpor> DJWillis: would be amazing if we could get bins compatible between pandoraOS and TBOS .. like, same bin runs on both. a stretch, i know, but it would be good ..
[12:34] <DJWillis> torpor: why not, I have plenty of little things I have done that runs on my Beagle, Pandora and OMAP3 EVM using the same bins (and GLes).
[12:35] * dirk2 (n=dirk@p5B0404F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[12:36] <DJWillis> torpor: if it settles down and we can sort a common set of device hardware libs on the platforms (we already all build using OE so the core is close enough) and some good coding practice (i.e. ask DSS2 for screen setup, don't assume etc.) as we are sorted.
[12:37] <torpor> yeah
[12:37] <torpor> i hope it gets to that point, given that i've got a beagleboard, a touchbook, and soon a pandora on the desk. ;)
[12:38] <DJWillis> torpor: I was going to do some posts about it sometime, esp. when the Pandora is shipping, talking about how you can get many device targets for the price of one ;)
[12:38] <torpor> yeah i'll be very interested in those posts, personally.
[12:39] <torpor> btw, i got my order #.. 17!! :)
[12:40] <DJWillis> torpor: better than me ;-)
[12:41] <torpor> heh
[12:41] <torpor> but i bet you get yours first anyway! :)
[12:41] <DJWillis> torpor: nope, I want the finals to go out, I am happy with the dev board for now.
[12:41] <torpor> meh!
[12:41] * azaghal (n=azaghal@ Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[12:41] <torpor> i want those nubs man!
[12:41] * evilnick_B only ordered yesterday, so is waiting hopefully :)
[12:42] <evilnick_B> Er... s/hopefully/patiently/
[12:42] <torpor> screw my beagleboard and its projector, screw the touchbook and its ass-over-tits behaviour, i want me some serious NUBS!
[12:42] <torpor> :)
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[13:15] <torpor> anyone got a replacement for GetTickCount() on ARM handy? I had one somehwere but I can't find it ..
[13:17] <torpor> gregoiregentil: can i ask a stupid question? why this:
[13:18] <torpor> -r-xr-x--- 1 root root 11144 Apr 14 2009 /usr/include/EGL/egl.h*
[13:18] <torpor> ?
[13:19] <tommd> torpor: I think google is your friend for this question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGL_%28OpenGL%29
[13:20] <torpor> no i mean *WHY* is it root:root -r-xr-x---
[13:21] <torpor> i can't think of any good reason for it to be installed that way
[13:21] <torpor> in fact there are plenty of things like this all through TBOS and i'm just wondering why ..
[13:21] <tommd> Oh, I see. I'd guess thats a mistake but a much more reasonable question ;-)
[13:22] * azaghal_ (n=azaghal@ Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[13:32] <Eruquen> my screen starts to flicker after a few minutes of usage, usually when there is high contrast (black background, white window on it). a few minutes later the screen goes to those fancy colors that you get at the start for a short time and the whole touchbooks shuts down
[13:32] <Eruquen> any ideas on that?
[13:34] <Eruquen> happens with and without dc plugged in
[13:35] <Eruquen> but only started recently
[13:35] <Eruquen> after the update if I remember correctly
[13:36] <snlemons-sleep> so, is the wifi card a Ralink 3070 or 2870? the website says 3070, but gregoiregentil told me last night the driver was for 2870.
[13:36] * snlemons-sleep is now known as snlemons
[13:36] <drantin> lsusb would tell you what the card claims to be...
[13:38] <gregoiregentil> snlemons-sleep: complex situation due to Ralink. Hardware is 3070, software supporting 3070 is named 2870
[13:39] <MikeEvans> part #touchbook
[13:39] <MikeEvans> oops - guess who forgot the /
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[13:40] <snlemons> gregoiregentil: if I were to try if on another computer, which driver should I use? last night I tested it with the 2870 drivers for OSX.
[13:42] <snlemons> got the same result as I do on the TB (tries to connect but doesn't seem to get IP), but I wanted to be sure it wasn't just that I should be using the 3070 drivers.
[13:44] <viridior> hola
[13:48] <hyc> there's a lot of confusion with those drivers, ralink provides an explicit rt3070 driver
[13:48] <hyc> it is just a very slightly modified version of their rt2870 driver
[13:48] <tommd> I'm pretty sure thats in GregKH's tree.
[13:48] <hyc> In the current Linux kernel (2.6.31, 2.6.32) the 3070 features have been merged into the 2870 driver
[13:49] <tommd> Yeah, its in staging.
[13:49] <hyc> yes, I'm talking about GregKH's stuff
[13:49] * azaghal__ is now known as azaghal
[13:49] <hyc> I have no idea if the OSX maintainers have done the same thing, or if there is still a separate 3070 driver for them
[13:51] <snlemons> hyc: I downloaded the pre-built OSX drivers from Ralink's site. I could try with 3070, as well. just didn't know if it was worth the try.
[13:52] <snlemons> so, I also have another USB wifi card I could use temporarily till the issues with the original one are resolved. would anyone be able to help with building the drivers? I'm ok with compiling programs generally, but don't often compile dirvers.
[13:53] <snlemons> it's a D-Link WUA-1340 (I think Ralink rt73 chipset, but I could check).
[13:54] <snlemons> according to this list http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=compatibility_drivers it is rt73, in fact.
[13:55] * gogabr (n=ai@adsl-71-145-133-160.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #touchbook
[13:55] <snlemons> also have a Davicom DM9601 wired ethernet USB device I could try, but I'd prefer wifi, of course.
[13:56] <snlemons> got code for both, if anyone could help me with configuring and building.
[13:59] <gogabr> anyone from ai? gregoiregentil? alexandre?
[13:59] * tommd (n=Thomas_D@dhcp-223-19.seas.pdx.edu) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
[14:00] <gregoiregentil> what's the question?
[14:00] <gregoiregentil> I'm working hard on a few things so I'm just taking a look at the chat room from time to time
[14:05] <torpor> gregoiregentil: why the perms on so many system headers? just a mistake?
[14:06] <gregoiregentil> torpor: not sure to understand? perhaps an OE problem
[14:06] <torpor> i don't know about that.
[14:06] <torpor> -r-xr-x--- 1 root root 11144 Apr 14 2009 /usr/include/EGL/egl.h*
[14:06] <torpor> ?
[14:06] <torpor> is that put in place by OE?
[14:12] * tommd (n=Thomas_D@host-246-241.pubnet.pdx.edu) has joined #touchbook
[14:13] <gregoiregentil> Not sure
[14:13] <torpor> okay well in generaly i'm finding that the permissions on /usr/include are definitely wrong
[14:14] <gregoiregentil> I understand
[14:14] <torpor> shall i issue a bug ?
[14:15] <DJWillis> torpor: yes it is put there in OE. http://cgit.openembedded.net/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/powervr-drivers/libgles-omap3.inc IIRC, needs tweaks to install with correct modes, feel free to patch up and tell koen ;-)
[14:16] <gregoiregentil> I was about to say something similar
[14:16] <torpor> ah crap
[14:16] <torpor> i get it now
[14:16] <DJWillis> torpor: for PVR headers that is.
[14:16] <torpor> yeah
[14:16] <torpor> ight now i don't have an OE tree i can test a patch against, you wanna do it DJWillis?
[14:17] <DJWillis> torpor: I would but right now I am busy trying to sort some more Linux-PAM stuff, drop me a mail with a suggested permission setup and i'll commit to my tree and get koen to pull it into OE.
[14:18] <DJWillis> torpor: or mail oe-devel :)
[14:18] <torpor> okay ..
[14:18] <torpor> yeah
[14:18] <torpor> i should do that.
[14:18] <torpor> :)
[14:21] <torpor> just a general question: are we supposed to be able to freely 'ipkg install' things now, or is there still some difficulty with the angstrom repo?
[14:21] <torpor> i'm not clear on this point: our libc causes problems, or?
[14:22] <DJWillis> torpor: opkg regardless but I am not sure if gregoiregentil pushed to devs libc with the latest firmware. Would make things easier ;)
[14:23] <torpor> sorry, opkg instead of ipkg? oh damn i've been using ipkg.
[14:23] <torpor> old habits.
[14:24] <DJWillis> torpor: symlink IIRC anyway
[14:36] <torpor> anyone know the truth? WORD = 16 bits on Windows, right? (sorry i'm not a windows guy)
[14:43] <snlemons> is it normal for hcitool dev not to list my BT card?
[14:46] <snlemons> do I need to turn it on or something? the only forum entry I can find for hcitool seems to indicate that it should work out of the box.
[14:48] <snlemons> light is green, and I've tried it in 2 internal USB ports and one external.
[14:49] <snlemons> holy crap! my wifi connected...
[14:49] <snlemons> tried it on an external USB port and it worked. gonna move it back inside and see.
[14:52] <snlemons> and now it works inside... on the same port where it wasn't working before...
[14:54] <snlemons> it worked until I disconnected and tried to reconnect. this issue is so weird.
[14:55] <snlemons> oh, I was trying to connect to a hidden AP. I bet there are issues with that, independently.
[14:56] * evilnick_B (i=0c140464@rockbox/staff/evilnick) Quit ("Page closed")
[14:58] <snlemons> ok, so wifi seems to magically work. now to figure out bluetooth issues.
[15:07] <snlemons> hm... I unplugged the BT and re-plugged while the TB was turned on, and it seems to work. weird stuff.
[15:08] <snlemons> this is why I hate working with hardware. :)
[15:15] * mturquet1e is now known as mturquette
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[17:23] <ai> sup people
[17:23] * ai is now known as shiznebit
[17:23] <shiznebit> for FFS
[17:32] <snlemons> using a client that defaults to your account username, eh?
[17:33] <shiznebit> lol
[17:33] <snlemons> that seems, to me, like the poorest decision any IRC client author ever made. "here's half the info you need to log in as me on my local machine!"
[17:33] <shiznebit> eh, i just have to setup eeverything
[17:34] <shiznebit> i have no time
[17:34] <snlemons> ah, yeah. know what you mean.
[17:34] <snlemons> I've neglected work for the last 2 days to get my TB set up right.
[17:35] <shiznebit> oO
[17:35] <snlemons> had issues with wifi.
[17:35] <shiznebit> yeah
[17:35] <shiznebit> did you work them out
[17:35] <snlemons> they magically went away after 24 hours of struggling.
[17:35] <shiznebit> LMAO
[17:35] <shiznebit> automagic is great
[17:35] <snlemons> I plugged the wifi into the external USB port. it worked. moved it back inside. still works.
[17:35] <snlemons> mind you, I tried all 3 internal USB ports before.
[17:36] <shiznebit> voodoo ?
[17:36] <snlemons> just didn't want electronics loose out there for the cats to chew on. how was I to know cat slobber fixes everything?
[17:36] <shiznebit> gave a sacrifice to the computer god ?
[17:36] <shiznebit> lol snlemons
[17:36] <snlemons> same happened for my bluetooth, too. weird, huh?
[17:37] <shiznebit> yeah
[17:37] <shiznebit> sell the idea
[17:37] <snlemons> I actually figured it out cause I wanted to replace the BT and move it to the outside.
[17:37] <snlemons> it's so tiny and not nearly as fragile as the wifi. so I replaced it with a flash drive and will just plug it in when I need it.
[17:38] <snlemons> oh, so, I am, however, having issues compiling anything so far.
[17:38] <snlemons> think I don't have the right LD_LIBRARY_PATH or something.
[17:38] <snlemons> error coming in a sec.
[17:39] <snlemons> undefined reference to "__lic_csu_fini"
[17:39] <snlemons> undefined reference to "__lic_csu_init"
[17:39] <snlemons> oops
[17:40] <snlemons> /s/lic/libc
[17:52] <snlemons> oh, found an answer on forums now. searched for the error and got nothing but "compile" got me what I needed. doh.
[18:03] * shiznebit (n=ai@touchbook.poly.edu) Quit ("Lost terminal")
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[18:09] <snlemons> hm... so, ipkg is giving me an error about glib-2.0 wanting to install a file that libglib-2.0-0 already provides. should I uninstall the latter and let the other replace it, or is there some way to convince it the necessary dependency is fulfilled?
[18:09] * tommd (n=ai@65-102-11-148.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:10] <snlemons> having similar issues with libgcc fighting with libgcc1
[18:42] <snlemons> think I've resolved that with -force-overwrite. scares me, but worth a shott.
[18:42] <snlemons> *shot
[18:43] <snlemons> now to figure out why ipkg can't find kernel-module-fuse
[19:04] <snlemons> ok, last question of the night. any thoughts on why I get an error saying it can't find lgobject-2.0 when I clearly have it in /usr/lib and have LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to include /usr/lib?
[19:04] <snlemons> this is compiling, of course.
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[19:23] <Guest91448> snlemons: Thanks for the update on your wifi. I tried using it externally, and it didn't work for me. :(
[19:24] <snlemons> Guest91448: yeah, I'm not sure that moving it there was what fixed it. seems weird for that to be the fix.
[19:25] <Guest91448> I think it's probably encryption setup, but I don't know ho to do it right.
[19:25] <snlemons> Guest91448: does your AP use TKIP?
[19:25] <Guest91448> It's not taking my encryption key at all
[19:25] <snlemons> if not, make sure to switch to CCMP.
[19:25] <Guest91448> Not 100%
[19:25] <snlemons> in the connection window
[19:25] <snlemons> sorry, what's not 100%?
[19:26] <Guest91448> never heard of CCMP, so probably TKIP.
[19:26] <snlemons> try both, anyway
[19:26] <Guest91448> not 100% certainty
[19:26] <snlemons> ah, sure
[19:27] <Guest91448> Ok. Will take some time as I have to set it up manually
[19:27] <snlemons> well, I'd say try both. mine didn't work when I left it on the default (TKIP)
[19:27] <snlemons> why manually?
[19:27] <snlemons> hm... my desktop settings app has stopped working. weird.
[19:28] <Guest91448> it doesn't auto-detect my network (hidden SSID?) so I have to do it manually
[19:28] <snlemons> oh, that's a problem
[19:28] <snlemons> I don't think it can connect to hidden APs
[19:28] <snlemons> least, it couldn't connect to mine.
[19:29] <Guest91448> the UI is bad in that respect. Makes me set up the connection completely for just a TKIP/CCMP.
[19:29] <snlemons> you can double-click the already created one
[19:29] <snlemons> and just hit "connect"
[19:29] <Guest91448> yeah, except I'm unsure of the state, because the status messages are wonky
[19:30] <Guest91448> trying TKIP first...
[19:32] <gregoiregentil> ******* If you have any interest for the Touch Book, please read this: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Contributors *******
[19:32] <gregoiregentil> You may read this too: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Contest
[19:34] <snlemons> Guest91448: definitely try un-hiding the AP, too. I don't think hidden APs are supported.
[19:34] <Guest91448> I don't have control of the AP at the moment. ;)
[19:35] <snlemons> Guest91448: ah, that'll be a problem.
[19:35] <Guest91448> You serious about not being able to connect to hidden APs? That doesn
[19:35] <Guest91448> doesn't make sense
[19:37] <snlemons> Guest91448: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Troubleshooting#I.27m_not_able_to_connect_to_my_wireless_network_any_more
[19:38] <snlemons> "Please check that you are not using a hidden network."
[19:38] <ryuo> "hidden network" -> "hidden ssid"
[19:39] <snlemons> anyone done the touchscreen callibration here http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Touchscreen_calibration and experienced problems with the Desktop Settings app after?
[19:40] <snlemons> oh, I should ask shtylman__ I guess.
[19:41] <snlemons> since he wrote the instructions on there.
[19:41] <Guest91448> ryuo: thanks, I gathered that :)
[19:42] <Guest91448> so is hidden SSID a "not supported currently" or a "never supported"?
[19:43] <Guest91448> I wouldn't mind if I could set it up from the CLI, but not working period is a non-starter
[19:45] <Guest91448> The AP setup is fragile, so I hate changing it. Buggy Windows drivers galore.
[19:47] <snlemons> gregoiregentil: have you posted that contest link in any of the big android freenode channels? I'm a regular in them, so I can post it for you. just didn't want to spam.
[19:49] <gregoiregentil> That would be a very good idea.
[19:49] <gregoiregentil> but perhaps better if I do it
[19:49] <gregoiregentil> which channels do you recommend?
[19:51] <snlemons> gregoiregentil: I'd recommend #android and #android-dev. many of the OS hackers are in #android-nexus, but it may be invite only. message SanMehat for access there.
[19:52] <gregoiregentil> OK
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[19:52] <snlemons> I'm excited to see what comes of it. big android fan, but don't have the time to hack it together myself. :)
[20:06] * alexandre (n=alexandr@c-98-210-206-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
[20:26] <snlemons> bah! I can install pdb, but I can't run it as "python -m pdb [file]" because there's no runpy.
[20:28] <Guest91448> gregoiregentil: Should I file a bug for hidden SSID support?
[20:33] * shiznebit_ (n=chatzill@ool-18b99096.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #touchbook
[20:38] <gregoiregentil> yes
[20:47] <snlemons> so, yeah. runpy is part of the python stdlibs normally, but somehow isn't in the ipk in the repos or the default install.
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