#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-10-28

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <ryuo> also thought it'd be fun to see how fast my C programs run on ARM linux.
[0:00] <ryuo> see if i can find ways to write faster code too.
[0:00] <ryuo> figured a slower computer would help with that.
[0:00] <gregoiregentil> Basically, I would like to push Midori as the main browser of AI OS (still keeping the others) but Midori seems to be a good trade-off.
[0:00] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw I know he's working on hildon stuff nowadays, so he's familiar with omap3 power :)
[0:01] <Corsac> yeah, I've switched to midori as main browser in my laptop
[0:01] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: Good.
[0:01] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: I think you might want to mail him (or xfce@) directly
[0:01] <gregoiregentil> To be honest, it still lacks some maturity but Firefox is not usable on an ARM processor today...
[0:01] <Corsac> there's an issue tracker too but it's a bit overwhelmed :)
[0:01] <gregoiregentil> is there a mailing list specifically for Midori
[0:01] <ryuo> would seamonkey work better?
[0:02] <gregoiregentil> or is it the standard xfce mailing list?
[0:02] <Corsac> I don't think so
[0:02] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: std, (maybe using xfce-dev is better though)
[0:02] <ryuo> their 2.x browser is reaching "stable" quality
[0:02] <Corsac> they lack manpower
[0:02] <gregoiregentil> Seamonkey is a "clone" of Firefox => same problem of performance
[0:02] <Corsac> well, they
[0:03] <Corsac> he :)
[0:03] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: actually, it started from mozilla..
[0:03] <Corsac> he'd really appreciate help from gtk+ coders :/
[0:03] <ryuo> but yea..
[0:03] <ryuo> if i recall firefox was a brand new project to some extent
[0:03] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: well, I would appreciate some help from him too!
[0:03] <Corsac> :))
[0:03] <ryuo> maybe gecko is just slow
[0:04] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: he's usually around at european time but I can forward him your post on #midori if you want
[0:04] <Corsac> and try to reproduce myself, btw
[0:04] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: I think that it would be useful if you can make an email intro, explaining what we (=AI) are trying to do
[0:05] <gregoiregentil> and the fact that we are very interested by Midori because of a good trade-off.
[0:05] <ryuo> basically i'm just twiddling my thumbs while i wait :P
[0:05] <Corsac> sure
[0:07] <ryuo> i think i've been using linux for 3 years now..
[0:07] <ryuo> i ditched windows some time ago as my primary OS
[0:08] <gregoiregentil> I will push the recipes to git soon. ;-) This way, the community can follow what we are doing...
[0:08] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: ahh, i think the funniest git command is 'blame' lol
[0:08] <ryuo> hey, YOU broke this!
[0:08] <ryuo> =p
[0:09] <gregoiregentil> Indeed
[0:09] <Corsac> sent
[0:09] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: Thanks!
[0:09] <ryuo> i've been working on a menu program for x11..
[0:09] * Corsac bitbakes midori
[0:10] <gregoiregentil> you need also to upgrade webkit-gtk
[0:10] <gregoiregentil> Koen has an updated recipe on OE
[0:10] <ryuo> there was one menu i really liked from a window manager called firebox, and i thought it would be fun to clone it so its not tied to a WM...
[0:10] <gregoiregentil> for Midori 0.2.0, you can take the same as 0.1.x
[0:11] <ryuo> hm
[0:13] <Corsac> hmh ok
[0:13] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw, about cpu power usage, is there anything useful for us on the maemo kernel sources?
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> Yes and no. Nokia is doing very interesting stuff and they push it upstream even if at the same time, they release an older version to have something very stable
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> the work done by Tomi on DSS2 was very good and extremely valuable.
[0:16] <gregoiregentil> "everybody" on OMAP platform is using it now
[0:16] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: it would be nice to get it sooner, but i understand its usually first come, first serve.
[0:16] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: the big next step is definitely the power consumption
[0:17] <gregoiregentil> the PM branch is the next big thing
[0:21] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: so i should drop a line to the AI email to explain my full situation?
[0:21] <ryuo> I'll throw in the order number i was given..
[0:22] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw the touchscreen on midori doesn't really work fine (it seems to right clic instead of scrolling)
[0:22] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: is it because there's no touchscreen stuff in gtkrc?
[0:22] <Corsac> or because I should configure the touchscreen differently?
[0:22] <ryuo> Corsac: the touchscreen work at all? the latest touchscreen i ever tried to get to work wasnt very responsive. (my laptops touchscreen)
[0:22] <Corsac> ryuo: tbh it could be better, it's not really responsive/sensitive
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: first you need to use tslib instead of evdev
[0:23] <Corsac> but my guess would be that's it's configuration related
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> which is better
[0:23] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: I am
[0:23] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: tslib work on x86?
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> secondly, there is an option gnome-touchscreen-mode
[0:23] <ryuo> thats where my touchscreen is
[0:23] <Corsac> think so
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> that midori needs to provides the grab n drag feature
[0:23] <ryuo> its some egalax touchscreen model
[0:23] <Corsac> ryuo: xserver-xorg-input-tslib | 0.0.6-1 | http://ftp.fr.debian.org sid/main Packages
[0:23] <ryuo> according to bios
[0:24] <ryuo> err
[0:24] <ryuo> usb
[0:24] <ryuo> ah
[0:24] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: I should use that as an environment variable?
[0:24] <gregoiregentil> in ~/.gtkrc-2.0
[0:24] <gregoiregentil> or /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[0:24] <Corsac> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.15/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-touchscreen-mode
[0:25] <ryuo> wow. old school. i dont edit that manually anymore =p
[0:25] <Corsac> gtk-touchscreen-mode or gnome-touchscreen-mode?
[0:25] <Corsac> (iirc I tried it on midori on my laptop using gtk-)
[0:25] <gregoiregentil> gtk
[0:26] <hyc> have you tried arora? midori still has some usability issues
[0:27] <hyc> I've been looking at a bunch of different browsers lately
[0:27] <Corsac> arora is qt, not sure it's really a good idea :/
[0:27] <Corsac> ha but gtk-touchscreen-mode won't work on 0.1.0, I'll have to wait for the bitbake to end
[0:27] <hyc> I've found several web sites where the back button doesn't work, just stays on the current page
[0:28] <hyc> if you press it 3-4 times in a row it eventually backs up
[0:28] <hyc> basically its history management is unreliable
[0:28] <hyc> re: seamonkey, I wish that was a viable option; I've been hacking on it since 2004
[0:29] <hyc> but it is definitely not lightweight or small footprint
[0:29] <gregoiregentil> The problem of all those browsers is to reach a critical mass. it's why they lack maturity and why those projects lack resource
[0:29] <gregoiregentil> the only one which was mature enough is Firefox, but they lost their way
[0:30] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: opera not suitable?
[0:30] <hyc> I would say they lost before they started; the Suite was the only real value. but never mind...
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> or saying it differently, they are victim of their success. They can't innovate any more at a faster pace
[0:30] <hyc> Perhaps google chrome will be better.
[0:30] <ryuo> i know opera has some ARM versions.
[0:30] <hyc> overall it seems that webkit is more viable than gecko, anyway
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> yes, definitely, in terms of performance
[0:31] <gregoiregentil> webkit surpasses gecko by a factor xx
[0:31] <dpb> Oh, Gregoire is back to irc. Nice to see you back here. :)
[0:31] <hyc> I was surprised to read that iCab switched to webkit. I hacked on the original Cab, and it was all a homegrown HTML engine.
[0:31] <hyc> quite compact and fast.
[0:32] <hyc> but I guess again, there wasn't enough of a developer base to keep it moving forward to HTML5
[0:32] <gregoiregentil> From a certain point of view, the more people switch to webkit, the better it is, as it's creating a critical mass
[0:32] <hyc> right
[0:32] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: i sent in a mail through your contact form.
[0:32] <gregoiregentil> OK
[0:33] <hyc> hmmm.... IMO it would be better to have more people focused on the kernel; alternate distros can come later
[0:33] <hyc> anyone can slap together the user level once the kernel works
[0:33] <ryuo> I've always wanted to check out an ARM device, and this is the first one that feels familiar enough to tinker with.
[0:34] <hyc> As a C/Linux programmer there's not much difference to programming on an x86 PC
[0:34] <hyc> application programming, anyway
[0:35] <ryuo> hyc: well its still new to me..
[0:35] <hyc> unfortunately, stray far beyond that and it gets more difficult
[0:35] <hyc> g++ still generates broken code
[0:35] <ryuo> on ARM?
[0:35] <hyc> yes
[0:35] <ryuo> wow. =p
[0:36] <hyc> rather, I have a few pieces of C++ code that it miscompiled
[0:36] <ryuo> that'll make compiling stuff like wesnoth more difficult
[0:36] <hyc> fortunately for me I mainly work with C...
[0:36] <ryuo> still g++ is the only mature open source C++ compiler that i know of
[0:37] <ryuo> must be annoying if you can't trust the compiler to do what you said to.
[0:37] <hyc> yes, intensely annoying
[0:38] <hyc> and from the discussions on #beagle and #oe it seems that gcc isn't spitting out very wonderful code either
[0:38] <hyc> but at least it works
[0:38] <ryuo> unfortunately its the main compiler you got to work with
[0:38] <ryuo> i dont know if free pascal is much better
[0:38] <hyc> I was reading up on llvm this week, sounds like it has some potential
[0:38] <ryuo> via clang?
[0:39] <hyc> right
[0:39] <ryuo> i learned some pascal and i've shelved it already.
[0:39] <hyc> but again, it's still early days yet for that code. they call clang production ready, I'm not so sure...
[0:39] <ryuo> it taught me some useful stuff but its not very viable as a usable language
[0:39] <hyc> pascal was only ever a teaching tool, not meant for real use
[0:40] <ryuo> you can use use it to write real programs but it seems like too much trouble
[0:40] <ryuo> it helped me to understand "OOP" better.
[0:41] <ryuo> so whats your favorite environment?
[0:41] <ryuo> for editting your source code
[0:41] <ryuo> i prefer this quirky editor called code-browser, has a special kind of code folding that i'm fond of.
[0:42] <ryuo> i contributed some patches to it to enhance the syntax highlighting
[0:42] <hyc> I use vi
[0:42] <ryuo> ah, yes.. old reliable.
[0:42] <hyc> or vim, I suppose is the correct name. But yeah, I started on 4.2BSD vi.
[0:42] <ryuo> i use vi when i have to use the console.
[0:43] * leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[0:43] <DJWillis> Morning (or evening) gregoiregentil, not seen you around these parts for a while.
[0:44] <ryuo> if gregoiregentil lives where i think he does, its like 1 am there.
[0:44] <ryuo> california is 2 hours behind my timezone.
[0:44] <gregoiregentil> DJWillis: yup. We have been quite busy for the past few weeks. But I will have more time to dedicate to software
[0:44] <gregoiregentil> in the comiin weeks, so I intend to spend more time in the chat room - to reconnect
[0:44] <gregoiregentil> yes, it's almost 1am here
[0:44] <hyc> you've definitely been missed in these chats
[0:45] <ryuo> i can't sleep right now so i'm here
[0:45] <DJWillis> gregoiregentil: I can imagine.
[0:45] <gregoiregentil> Thanks! Sorry!
[0:45] <ryuo> so cold now.. lol
[0:45] <gregoiregentil> I definitely would like to engage the next gear for the OS so that we can improve OMAP-related stuff. Koen pushed me hard to convert to git so that we can better share with OE
[0:46] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: hmhm, no webkit recipe in OE?
[0:46] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: there is
[0:46] <Corsac> ./recipes/webkit/webkit-gtk_svn.bb looks weird
[0:46] <gregoiregentil> it's webkit-gtk
[0:46] <Corsac> the _svn one?
[0:46] <gregoiregentil> yes, it's this one.
[0:46] <gregoiregentil> yes
[0:46] <DJWillis> gregoiregentil: sounds ideal, I think Steve (on the Gumsix front), you (TB) and the Pandora stuff landing in mainline OE is only a good thing for OMAP3 at the moment.
[0:46] <gregoiregentil> take the latest from OE. Koen has updated it
[0:47] <ryuo> seems like everyone uses GIT now, eh?
[0:47] <DJWillis> ryuo: for better or worse it's become the the de-facto.
[0:47] <ryuo> ah.
[0:47] <hyc> I don't know of many downsides to git ... do you?
[0:48] <gregoiregentil> DJWillis: I definitely agree. Jason and the other guys in Dallas make their best efforts to support all those projects
[0:48] <gregoiregentil> there is definitely a good momentum
[0:48] <ryuo> the only one i got is its a bit unusual to use
[0:48] <ryuo> i'm still learning git
[0:48] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: hmhm I won't have time to build webkit before leaving for work, would you have the necessary .ipk somewhere?
[0:48] <gregoiregentil> and I'm sure that the Palm and Maemo engineers browse very often the OE repo....
[0:48] * MMlosh (n=MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:2028:1c8b:3971:1979) has joined #touchbook
[0:48] <hyc> yeah, still learning here too, but I like what I've seen so far
[0:49] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: it's a little bit long actually. let me take a look at the size
[0:49] <hyc> gregoiregentil: so are all the AI patches upstream in OE now?
[0:49] <gregoiregentil> Oh no! If Koen reads this...
[0:50] <hyc> heh heh...
[0:50] <Corsac> hyc: at least in Xfce there are a lot of ???branding??? patches which might benefit for some sorting :) (stuff which may included upstream, stuff which are just pure branding, and the in-between which is not exactly branding but don't make sense outside of the tb)
[0:51] <hyc> I'm not worried about branding, just about hardware support
[0:51] <Stskeeps> gregoiregentil: saw our mer with maemo5 desktop video on TB? a bit flakey but interesting potential on the device :)
[0:52] <gregoiregentil> Stskeeps: yup. we are welcoming any other OS. We try to show through The AI OS how to optimize for the Touch Book and then we welcome other initiative
[0:52] <gregoiregentil> and if we can help, we will
[0:52] <ryuo> whose Koen? I'm new here :o
[0:53] <gregoiregentil> Koen is the guy behind OE
[0:53] <ryuo> Oh.
[0:53] <DJWillis> gregoiregentil: Palm could do a lot worse then push some WebOS OE bits upstream, and I know quite a few active OMAP3 devs at Nokia who have more than a passing interest in OE. It's finally getting there for TI if they can keep the hardware and low level driver fixes comming.
[0:53] <hyc> he hangs out in here too, you'll probably cross paths soon enough
[0:54] <ryuo> I'm guessing AI is a very small business. heh =p
[0:54] <gregoiregentil> DJWillis: I agree
[0:54] * leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) has joined #touchbook
[0:54] <hyc> I hear the new Motorola Droid phone is also using CortexA8
[0:54] <gregoiregentil> ryuo: yup. Our main advantage is that we can keep a very fast pace of innovation
[0:55] <ryuo> the main reason i ordered a TB is because of its uniqueness.
[0:55] <hyc> it's definitely an exciting time to be working with these systems
[0:55] <ryuo> in the current US market, i didnt find a single ARM of the netbook size, except for this one.
[0:56] <hyc> I seem to recall that several were shown at Computex over the summer, but they were all still >6 months out
[0:56] <gregoiregentil> The potential of OMAP is to my mind endless. They are some many ways to use it. With Linux and all those drivers that are coming along, it's possible to do very interesting stuff
[0:56] <ryuo> its funny. the japanese seem to get all the cool gadgets :P
[0:57] <ryuo> look at the sharp ARM devices.
[0:57] <hyc> Funny, when I was working with Xybernaut, and OMAP was just coming onto the scene. The guy I worked with said the same thing:
[0:58] <ryuo> TI is new to the ARM scene?
[0:58] <hyc> potential of OMAP is endless. but I didn't see it at the time.
[0:58] <ryuo> hyc: how does OMAP stand out among other ARM variants?
[0:58] <hyc> OMAP is more than just ARM, which is why it's so interesting
[0:59] <hyc> ARM is just a CPU, OMAP is a SoC.
[0:59] <ryuo> OH.
[0:59] <ryuo> so OMAP includes the hardware platform too, eh?
[0:59] <hyc> System-on-a-chip, with lots of other powerful coprocessors
[0:59] <ryuo> i'm used to thinking of x86.
[0:59] <hyc> yeah, you need to get out of that mindset
[1:00] <hyc> I spent a long time programming Ataris, they were all about co-processors too.
[1:00] <ryuo> Atari...
[1:00] <ryuo> Before my time.
[1:00] <ryuo> I grew up with SNES.
[1:01] <ryuo> Playstation lol
[1:01] <DJWillis> hyc: not using Tom and Jerry?
[1:01] <hyc> I would figure SNES hardware had quite a bit of audio/video coprocessing too
[1:01] <ryuo> LOL That old cartoon?
[1:01] <hyc> DJWillis: heh, yeah.
[1:01] <ryuo> hyc: afaik, it was written in purely assembly.
[1:01] <hyc> ryuo: Tom & Jerry were also names of Atari chips
[1:01] <ryuo> Oh.
[1:02] <hyc> but yeah, named after the cartoon, no doubt
[1:02] <ryuo> the only ARM device i own is my nintendo DS probably.
[1:02] <DJWillis> hyc: I am not the only one who hacked on the Jaguar ;-)
[1:03] <hyc> heh heh... I never made it to there, I still have one sitting under my TV but I stopped coding at the Falcon
[1:03] <hyc> which taught me all about programming DSPs, good ol' Moto 56001
[1:03] <ryuo> hyc: hope you wore gloves when playing with the falcon :P its talons can be dangerous XD
[1:05] <hyc> I actually had an offer from Atari Microsystems too. They were going to go off and design workstations and such around the Jaguar processor.
[1:05] <hyc> but I think they folded pretty quick as Atari went downhill.
[1:06] <ryuo> hyc: how do they usually program for consoles? i've always wondered..
[1:06] <hyc> would've been fun to get in on their stuff...
[1:06] <ryuo> do they write in a main language and use a compiler of sorts?
[1:06] <hyc> ryuo: today it's more like PC programming than it used to be
[1:06] <ryuo> or is it all assembly?
[1:06] <DJWillis> hyc: STe coding and a little Falcon stuff. I miss my Falcon.
[1:06] <hyc> consoles used to be mainly assembly code, yeah
[1:07] <ryuo> assembly is kinda dated anyway
[1:07] <hyc> dated? hardly.
[1:07] <ryuo> not portable to my knowledge
[1:07] <ryuo> well i mean
[1:07] <ryuo> if your going for portability its not so useful :o
[1:07] <ryuo> so then where is it still useful?
[1:07] <hyc> DJWillis: I still have them all scattered around the house.
[1:07] <DJWillis> ryuo: these days it's just like coding for a PC, I mean the main 360 environment is Visual Studio on a PC and it works just like you would expect if you have been coding for a PC.
[1:08] <hyc> MegaST4, 1040STe, Falcons, TTs, Lynxes.
[1:08] <ryuo> Oh.
[1:08] <ryuo> I mean't on modern machines :P
[1:08] <DJWillis> ryuo: fatal mistake to think that people still code portable code when it comes to the crunch on a fixed hardware platform ;-)
[1:08] <ryuo> unless one of those is modern now.
[1:08] <DJWillis> hyc: :)
[1:08] <ryuo> DJWillis: heh..
[1:09] <ryuo> i wonder how GBA was designed
[1:09] <ryuo> assembly or what?
[1:09] <hyc> well, using a higher level language gives you faster development time
[1:09] <hyc> it's not always about portability
[1:10] <ryuo> ah, right.
[1:10] <hyc> but that's a nice side benefit, if you want to sell a game for many consoles
[1:10] <ryuo> i just don't understand assembly.
[1:10] <ryuo> C is as low level as I go.
[1:10] <DJWillis> ryuo: cheaply ;-), yep, a LOT of ARM code in GBA games but they tend to be done in higher level langs and then pinch points are done in lower level code.
[1:10] <hyc> heh. yep...
[1:11] <ryuo> sorry. so assembly is still useful
[1:11] <hyc> there was a time when all computers were only programmed in assembly :P
[1:11] <ryuo> but it has fallen out of favor in some ways
[1:11] <hyc> it has fallen out of favor because it's the hardest work in the programming world
[1:12] <hyc> and people as a rule are lazy
[1:12] <DJWillis> ryuo: very much so, in circles I tend to spend time in it is very much still used but that is hobby/demo scenes.
[1:12] <ryuo> haha, yea...
[1:12] <Corsac> and it's really easier yo do mistakes in assembly
[1:12] <hyc> but it's still necessary a lot of times...
[1:12] <Corsac> s/yo/to/
[1:12] <ryuo> and C is low level but still above assembly..
[1:12] <hyc> Corsac: with a good macro assembler it's not so bad
[1:13] <ryuo> the author of code-browser implemented some kind of special
[1:13] <ryuo> tab stops for proportional fonts and claimed it was very useful with assembly code
[1:13] <hyc> of course, there's the old joke that C is just the PDP-11 macro assembler
[1:13] <ryuo> hyc: with C you cut your arms off twice as fast?
[1:13] <ryuo> lol
[1:14] <ryuo> C isn't so bad when you really learn it i've seen.
[1:14] <ryuo> I learned its good habit to dereference pointers like this:
[1:14] <ryuo> (*ptr)
[1:14] <ryuo> because its more useful in general.
[1:15] <ryuo> it helps me ensure i dereference it properly
[1:15] <koen> good morning all
[1:15] <hyc> ah, there he is himself. morning koen
[1:16] <DJWillis> Morning Koen, so what time zone are you hiding in this week?
[1:16] <koen> .nl DST
[1:16] <ryuo> koen travels a lot? lol
[1:16] * koen is pre cookie & coffee, so watch out for cranky nonsense
[1:16] <hyc> oh, so it actually is morning for you...
[1:17] <Corsac> eu people, raise your arm (not the touchbook one)
[1:17] <hyc> still on PDT here
[1:17] * Corsac o/
[1:17] <dpb> \o
[1:17] <ryuo> gregs been quiet.
[1:17] <ryuo> did he leave?
[1:17] <Corsac> he might have fallen asleep on his keyboard
[1:17] <hyc> he's probably actually getting work done ;)
[1:17] <Corsac> or touchscreen!
[1:18] <dpb> What's the /dev device in use with tslib?
[1:18] <hyc> at this hour it's more fun to talk about work than actually do any...
[1:18] <Corsac> dpb: sec'
[1:19] <DJWillis> Corsac: UK, 8:20 AM with coffee and fruit sat on my desk infront of me ;-)
[1:19] <Corsac> /dev/input/touchscreen0
[1:19] <dpb> I got no such device.
[1:19] <Corsac> dpb: there were ubuntu rootfs posted here not so long ago
[1:19] <Corsac> dpb: you might want to sync with Macer
[1:20] <hyc> Corsac: what is the driver, same one?
[1:20] <hyc> is it just a matter of doing the proper mknod in /dev ?
[1:20] <Corsac> touchscreen0 is a link to event1 anyway
[1:20] <Corsac> 13, 65
[1:20] <DJWillis> koen: I got EVTOUCH working, ok, it's a little crufty but it works well for hold to right click etc. and seems quite good once calibrated.
[1:20] <Corsac> no lsinput
[1:20] <Corsac> :(
[1:21] <dpb> I actually don't have any devices in just /dev/input/ there's /dev/input/by-id/ where there are some
[1:21] <hyc> DJWillis: I'm not so fond of the hold-to-right-click stuff, it prevents you from doing a long scrolling operation
[1:21] <Corsac> [ 10.603363] input: ADS784x Touchscreen as /devices/platform/omap2_mcspi.4/spi4.0/input/input1
[1:21] <ryuo> DJWillis: I found another input driver for touchscreens someone wrote.
[1:21] <DJWillis> Corsac: that link is put there by the local.rules udev rule in OE.
[1:21] <ryuo> You want the URL?
[1:22] <hyc> it's quite annoying in midori to press on the scrollbar and get a menu popping up after a couple seconds
[1:22] <DJWillis> hyc: it's a personal thing for sure, I am not a fan but a lot of users of OP dev boards asked for it.
[1:22] <dpb> ah, there's the local.rules file in udev.. need to copy that over..
[1:23] <DJWillis> ryuo: go for it, I may already have it but chuck it in.
[1:23] <ryuo> http://www.plop.at/en/touchscreen.html <-- try this.
[1:23] <ryuo> written for x86 laptop but maybe it work?
[1:23] <hyc> I wonder if there's a way to make that rightclick option smarter, to know if you're currently activating a widget or not
[1:23] <hyc> then it would actually be usable
[1:23] <DJWillis> ryuo: ahhh, yep, that works just like EVTOUCH but with newer X servers (EVTOUCH is patched to work on those as well now). Tried that, seemed to work as well (or not) as EVTOUCH.
[1:24] <ryuo> oh so you've seen it.
[1:24] <DJWillis> hyc: I am looking to make it a configure option in some GUI with something to also say, how long should the delay be.
[1:24] <DJWillis> ryuo: I have but thanks, I have an OE recipe for it somewhere from testing.
[1:26] <hyc> DJWillis: also, it was taking effect while using the mouse, which makes no sense since the mouse already has buttons
[1:26] <ryuo> would be nice to get a TB soon lol
[1:26] <hyc> it needs to be confined to actual touchscreen input
[1:27] <DJWillis> hyc: that's why I started to mess with EVTOUCH just bound up to the one /dev/input/touchscreen0, trying to make the TB behave one way and everything else 'as normal'.
[1:27] <hyc> ah, gotcha
[1:27] <ryuo> DJWillis: how well does debian ARM work on TB?
[1:28] <DJWillis> hyc: I am not sure what gregoiregentil used on the TB, TSLib>X or EVDEV.
[1:28] <ryuo> probably TSLib
[1:28] <ryuo> he keeps claiming its better.
[1:28] <ryuo> than evdev
[1:28] <hyc> no, pretty sure it was EVDEV at first.
[1:28] <hyc> people only started experimenting with TSLib recently
[1:29] <DJWillis> ryuo: I don't have a TB but Debian ARM is ok on the Bealge/Pandora but 'IMHO' marked slower than OE due to the older nature of the ARM packages.
[1:30] <hyc> definitely better to have actual ARMv7a binaries...
[1:30] <DJWillis> EVDEV is very easy to get going but for touchscreens they have only added the most basic support (calibration etc.) recently to the GIT HEAD and I don't think its in a realse yet (maybe 2.3.0)
[1:31] <DJWillis> I think the EVDEV guys are starting to merge in the concepts from EVTOUCH if not the actual code.
[1:32] <hyc> I wonder how this all surfaces in libdirectfb
[1:32] <Corsac> DJWillis: in the AIOS originally it's evdev
[1:33] <Corsac> but I think it'll change soon since gregoire advertise to use tslib instead
[1:33] <hyc> I really need to get my build machine working again
[1:34] <hyc> want to get MGR running and then be totally old-school...
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[2:01] <koen> hmmm
[2:01] <koen> I wish gregoiregentil would do things the OE way in his OE tree :)
[2:02] <koen> like using the 'pointercal' package to install a pointercal instead adding it manually with a postprocess script
[2:04] <DJWillis> koen: joy to unpick
[2:18] <koen> DJWillis: have a look at http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/log/
[2:21] <DJWillis> koen: urggg ;-)
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[2:47] <koen> DJWillis: try doing ; git stash ; git pull --rebase ; git stash apply on the op.oe.dev branch
[2:48] <DJWillis> koen: if it sets fire to my house I blame you ;-)
[2:49] <dpb> cp -r first? ;)
[2:49] <DJWillis> dpb: already there ;-)
[2:49] <dpb> :P
[2:51] <DJWillis> Ok, lots of scary whiltespace errors then it went back to exactly what I had before ;-)
[2:53] <DJWillis> i'll assume it worked ;-)
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[3:19] <dpb> Meiz_n810: did you have some ready Mer image that works with the touchbook?
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[4:15] <koen> DJWillis: now you can do a 'git push -f' to the pandora repo
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[4:20] <DJWillis> koen: i'll try that later, still angry with myself after finding a bug in my images has been down to a 3am typo for the last 2 weeks ;-)
[4:22] <koen> heh
[4:22] <koen> welcome to my life
[4:22] <koen> NOTE: multiple providers are available for u-boot (u-boot, u-boot-omap3pandora);
[4:22] <koen> NOTE: consider defining PREFERRED_PROVIDER_u-boot
[4:22] <koen> probably some tweaking to the machine file needed
[4:23] <DJWillis> koen: for the Pandora, yep, I have not pushed my latest one up as it has expermental stuff in there and an out of tree kernel (it's in the overlay).
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[5:02] <koen> DJWillis: 'make oldconfig' is a nice help for sanity checking defconfigs
[5:02] <DJWillis> koen: sure is ;).
[5:02] <DJWillis> koen: will just blown away tmp so that's my build box busy for the day.
[5:02] <DJWillis> well even ;-)
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[5:10] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[5:41] * koen reads http://software.twotoasts.de/index.php?/archives/22-Element-blocking,-form-history-and-kinetic-scrolling.html
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[7:03] * koen ponders on a recipe to automatically set gtk-touchscreen-mode on boot if /dev/input/touchscreen0 is present
[7:05] <Corsac> you would have to put that in a .gtrkc-2.0
[7:05] <Corsac> or in Xsettings maybe
[7:11] <ryuo> perhaps a shell script? ;)
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[7:19] <koen> Corsac: I was thinking about something like http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/tango/tango-icon-theme-enable.bb?id=a71f287b6f15da6e91d31dc89bc49be183535516
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[7:31] <DJWillis> koen: it has merit, thinking on the same line as me.
[7:31] <DJWillis> koen: I need to think of a way to have those type of recipies uninstall cleanly.
[7:32] <koen> DJWillis: prerm() { if grep magic-string ; then sed }
[7:33] <DJWillis> koen: true, but restoring what was there before or you may find gtk/x/whatever fail to start and that would be bad (tm) ;-)
[7:34] <koen> DJWillis: the midori with kinetic scroll in now in OE :)
[7:35] * DJWillis is starting to get a nice setup with gtk-touchscreen-mode, evtouch (urggg) and the like, still not as finger friendly as I would like.
[7:35] <DJWillis> koen: oh, awesome, i'll grab that, when did it go in?
[7:36] * DJWillis is waiting for a full rebuild he started a few hours ago so hopes it made it in.
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[7:40] <koen> DJWillis: http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/commit/?id=9c3d769ebf9d744f96e1579983e1f1e48c5116e4
[7:41] <DJWillis> koen: ta
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[9:05] <koen> DJWillis: did the git push -f trick work?
[9:06] <gregoiregentil> gregoiregentil knows that Koen is not fully happy about Gregoire's (ex-svn) git mess :-(
[9:18] <DJWillis> koen: not tried, sorry, been busy with the day job
[9:18] <DJWillis> koen: ok, yep, worked ;-)
[9:30] <DJWillis> gregoiregentil: what's the waiting time like for UK orders at the moment?
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[9:32] <andrewgodwin> DJWillis: If you make me an offer I can't refuse, I have one in the UK, but apart from trying to get the top battery to hold charge, I'm happy with it...
[9:32] <andrewgodwin> I also learnt not to take it to Barcamp, you get asked what it is roughly every 13.5 secons
[9:32] <andrewgodwin> *seconds
[9:34] <DJWillis> andrewgodwin: I have LOTS of devices that fall into that slot ;-). The closest I have to the TB is style is my ARM/X86 combo HTC Shift. I am in no rush to get one but it would be cool to add another OMAP3 device to the collection to support.
[9:35] <andrewgodwin> ah, then you're fine :)
[9:35] <andrewgodwin> I have far too many internet tablets, but not much else
[9:35] <andrewgodwin> thankfully, they're small
[9:36] <DJWillis> andrewgodwin: I have a few OpenPandora boards but they all need to be tied to the desk to work ;-). Small but they eat up my desk.
[9:38] <andrewgodwin> yes, I can see that being an issue
[9:39] <andrewgodwin> I program s
[9:39] <andrewgodwin> *tuff for mine usually to improve my personal experience, rather than fiddling at the OS level
[9:39] <andrewgodwin> I'm not hardcore enough for that.
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[10:23] <martinh> hmm. is there a wxwidgets for the tb. . .
[10:25] <martinh> wonder how hard that would be to build.
[10:27] <martinh> and. . .wxpython too.
[10:27] <koen> there's wxwidgets in OE and in the angstrom feeds as binary
[10:28] <leinir> How come? :)
[10:29] <martinh> taskcoach
[10:30] <leinir> Right :)
[10:31] <martinh> I'm kind of focusing on making the touchbook useful for real use. since it seems that the other bases are fairly well covered.
[10:32] <leinir> Personally i'm looking forward to seeing plasma-netbook on it... no idea when that'll happen, though
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[10:35] <martinh> hmmm. apparently no wxpython though.
[10:37] <Meizirkki> leinir, happened already on my TB
[10:37] <Meizirkki> but it's absolytely shitty
[10:37] <Meizirkki> no GL
[10:38] <leinir> Meizirkki: Yeah... that's kinda what i meant *giggles* :)
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[11:18] <martinh> hmm. seems that angstrom has people asking about wxpython as it is.
[11:48] <Corsac> koen: yup, that looks nice (re: gtk-rc / gtk-touch-screen)
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[12:29] <Meizirkki> maybe AI has done some tricks to speed up fbdev.. http://git.alwaysinnovating.com/cgit.cgi/ai.openembedded.dev/tree/private-README
[13:05] <koen> DJWillis: dos2unix alert :)
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[13:21] <martinh> hrm. wxpython would be nice right now.
[13:22] <martinh> guess I'll have to build it next week. when I have time.
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[14:26] <Corsac> koen: mhmh is there some sample python packages?
[14:26] <Corsac> (I'd like to make some packages for scapy and asciidoc)
[14:26] <Corsac> ha, scapy's available
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[14:35] <Corsac> hmhm, seems that python is not linked against zlib
[14:57] <Corsac> hmmh, yes it is, but I don't have /usr/lib/python2.6/gzip.py
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[15:01] <Corsac> | configure: error: the compiler must support C cleanup handling
[15:01] <Corsac> mpf.
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[15:54] <ryuo> Corsac: so when does greg usually stir?
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[16:01] <ryuo> gregoiregentil: evening.
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[17:10] <gregoiregentil> ryuo: hello
[17:10] <ryuo> gregoiregentil, John is most kind, whoever he is. =p
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[18:04] <gregoiregentil> ryuo: Good!
[18:04] <ryuo> gregoiregentil, said i'd get my shipment in the next batch, whenever that is.
[18:06] <shiznebit> im really curious on the amount of people who ordered
[18:07] <ryuo> shiznebit, wouldn't know.
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[18:40] <gregoiregentil> Coming back soon
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[20:01] <ryuo> gregoiregentil, wb
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[23:46] <Corsac> ryuo: during the day in PST
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