#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-10-19

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:18] * shrykull (n=ansi1011@rz06.HS-Karlsruhe.DE) has joined #touchbook
[0:19] <shrykull> moo. has anyone found out how to get vpnc or anything similar to work?
[0:19] <shrykull> modprobe tun fails for me
[0:19] <shrykull> which basically means that /dev/net/tun wont work, therefore vpnc wont work
[0:22] * shrykull (n=ansi1011@rz06.HS-Karlsruhe.DE) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:23] * shrykull (n=ansi1011@rz06.HS-Karlsruhe.DE) has joined #touchbook
[0:23] <shrykull> oh, and 'date -s "Mon Oct 19 09:20:00 GMT 2009"' wont work, what am i doing wrong?
[0:26] * alongst (n=alon@ has joined #touchbook
[0:28] <shrykull> meh, ill try again later
[0:28] * Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@ has joined #touchbook
[0:41] * shrykull (n=ansi1011@rz06.HS-Karlsruhe.DE) Quit ("Leaving")
[0:45] <DJWillis> Corsac: Ping!
[0:50] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #touchbook
[0:52] * alongst (n=alon@ Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[0:53] * dpb got a touchbook \o/
[0:54] <dpb> I now just need a ac/dc adaptor..
[0:55] <dpb> Didn't get a stylus :(
[0:58] <andrewgodwin> dpb: neither did I
[1:09] <Meizirkki> O_o
[1:09] <Meizirkki> i did get a stylus, but it's so horribly sharp i'm scared to use it :P
[1:17] * fooq (n=reini@cm56-152-97.liwest.at) has joined #touchbook
[1:21] <virtual-penguin> it doesn't come with an A/C adapter?!
[1:23] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[1:28] <Corsac> DJWillis: pong
[1:29] <Corsac> is there any pictures of the ac/dc adapter?
[1:30] <Meizirkki> virtual-penguin, some ppl can't use the US adapter
[1:30] <Meizirkki> Corsac, i can upload
[1:30] <Corsac> it'd be nice
[1:30] <Corsac> is it a 110/220 one?
[1:30] <Meizirkki> yup
[1:30] <Corsac> so we just have to find the correct cable or use an adapter between the plug and the outlet?
[1:31] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #touchbook
[1:31] <Meizirkki> yes
[1:31] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[1:32] <virtual-penguin> shipping charges?
[1:32] <Corsac> ok, so if you could upload a picture of the adapter with the AC outlet side it'd be nice
[1:32] <Corsac> virtual-penguin: I paid a bit more than 300??? for full touchbook+shipping, without customs
[1:32] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #touchbook
[1:34] <Meizirkki> Corsac,
[1:34] <Corsac> yep?
[1:34] <Meizirkki> err
[1:34] <Meizirkki> http://imagebin.org/68393
[1:35] <Corsac> ha, that kind of adapter
[1:35] <Corsac> so yeah one cant just use a EU cable between the adapter and the wall outlet
[1:35] <Corsac> there is no cable :)
[1:36] <Corsac> can you snapshot the touchbook plug?
[1:36] <Corsac> ha, it's there
[1:37] <virtual-penguin> that's 430 witout a power supply... 450 with...
[1:37] <Corsac> ?
[1:37] <Corsac> 430 what?
[1:38] <virtual-penguin> American Dollars
[1:38] <Meizirkki> Corsac, the TB plug is smaller than a normal netbook/laptop plug so noone can kick 19V laptop charger in :P
[1:39] <Corsac> :))
[1:40] <Corsac> virtual-penguin: the dollar price and shipping costs are indicated on AI website, afaik
[1:40] * Meizirkki is trying to build a powersave enabled kernel >_>
[1:40] <virtual-penguin> The TB seems less and less a compelling machine. Acer has a touchscreen, android based macine wit 9 hour battery for 350US
[1:40] <virtual-penguin> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002P8M7BA?ie=UTF8&tag=ab34gy-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002P8M7BA
[1:41] <Meizirkki> virtual-penguin, in full processor use (playing a GL game for a stupid example :) ) it's nowhere near 9 hours
[1:41] <Meizirkki> Touch Book is ARm, and i'm an ARM-lover
[1:42] <virtual-penguin> but its 100 dollars less - and come with an AC adpter ;)
[1:42] <jvs> virtual-penguin, that acer you posted does not have a touchscreen
[1:42] <Meizirkki> what makes you think TB doesn't come with an AC adapter?
[1:43] <Meizirkki> virtual-penguin, ^
[1:43] <virtual-penguin> oops meant mutitouch touchpad
[1:43] <Meizirkki> haha
[1:43] <Corsac> that doesn't look like a touchscreen
[1:43] <virtual-penguin> I'm trying heard to convince myself to keep waiting for a touchbook....
[1:43] <Meizirkki> but can get touchscreens for 9 inch netbook from DX :P
[1:44] * andrewgodwin (n=andrew@hydrae.aeracode.org) Quit (Excess Flood)
[1:45] <virtual-penguin> AC adapter is 20 extra right? or does it come with one?
[1:45] * andrewgodwin (n=andrew@hydrae.aeracode.org) has joined #touchbook
[1:46] <Corsac> virtual-penguin: did you read?
[1:46] <Corsac> virtual-penguin: the adapter which comes with the touchbook is a US one
[1:46] <Corsac> which will fit you
[1:46] <Corsac> but not the EU international order
[1:46] <Corsac> which is what is discussed here
[1:47] <virtual-penguin> ok then the price comes out better....
[1:47] <virtual-penguin> I really really want to convince myself still that the TB is worth it...
[1:48] <virtual-penguin> Believe me there are lots of things that make te device VERY interesting....
[1:48] <blunderer> Corsac: yes but you just have to buy the plug adapter not the whole voltage conversion stuff
[1:48] <virtual-penguin> its unique features are guite obvious...
[1:48] <blunderer> it's about 5euro
[1:49] * andrewgodwin (n=andrew@hydrae.aeracode.org) Quit (Excess Flood)
[1:49] <virtual-penguin> the things that are making the decision hard for me are:
[1:49] * andrewgodwin (n=andrew@hydrae.aeracode.org) has joined #touchbook
[1:49] <virtual-penguin> the instability, the unknowns of the hardware.... and the waiting....
[1:52] <Meizirkki> some parts of the AIOS are disastear btw, mostly the networking >_<
[1:52] <Meizirkki> a bunch of scripts in /usr/bin/ai/networking pointing to other scripts that don't exist..
[1:53] <virtual-penguin> I don't mind having a beta system, new (almost experimental) hardware and haveing to compile a few things....
[1:53] <fooq> Meizirkki: to what extent are those scripts necessary?
[1:53] <virtual-penguin> but I definitely would expect the mahine to be stable one-day..
[1:53] <fooq> isn't the kernel sided network stuff enough?!
[1:54] <virtual-penguin> if it's going to be a hacker machine forever it will never make it...
[1:54] <Meizirkki> fooq: AI's messy wlan implementation..
[1:54] <Corsac> blunderer: yep, but I find the cable solution more convenient
[1:54] <Meizirkki> fooq, the modified wifi-radar
[1:54] <Corsac> blunderer: but I'm fine with the adapter
[1:55] <Meizirkki> KDE's powerdevil is able to see both batteries :)
[1:55] <fooq> hmm ok.. what i've read the wlan is completely functional
[1:55] * Meizirkki is running Kubuntu Karmic atm. :P
[1:55] <andrewgodwin> Meizirkki: you've got KDE on it?
[1:55] <jvs> the are using wifi-radar?
[1:55] <virtual-penguin> when will a non-hacker person but the machine and it will just work and last for years and do everything a generic user would need?
[1:56] <Meizirkki> andrewgodwin, yup
[1:56] <andrewgodwin> Meizirkki: how does in run in 256mb ram?
[1:56] <jvs> why didn't they stick to NetworkManager?
[1:57] <Corsac> because NM sucks
[1:57] <Meizirkki> Corsac +1
[1:57] <fooq> ifconfig / iwpriv etc works, does'nt it?
[1:58] <andrewgodwin> it might suck, but it sucks less than wifi-radar :)
[1:58] <Meizirkki> fooq, yes
[1:58] <jvs> andrewgodwin, exactly
[1:58] <Meizirkki> andrewgodwin, KDE is a lot faster on touch book than on n810. a bit slow but adds huge functionality
[1:58] <fooq> ;)
[1:59] <andrewgodwin> Meizirkki: right. I wonder if you can strip it down and just run e.g. plasma and kwin
[1:59] <andrewgodwin> and none of the extra services
[1:59] <andrewgodwin> ah, but then solid and powerdevil are needed
[1:59] <Meizirkki> andrewgodwin, yes, nepomuk for example, would kill this thing
[2:00] <andrewgodwin> mmm
[2:00] <Meizirkki> right now ksysguard says there's 136Mb of the RAM used
[2:00] <andrewgodwin> oh, that's not _too_ bad
[2:00] <andrewgodwin> especially because most KDE apps share the libraries
[2:00] <Meizirkki> and i'm building kernel atm..
[2:01] <andrewgodwin> I think it might be time to break out the second SD card
[2:01] <andrewgodwin> does wireless work?
[2:01] <Meizirkki> i haven't gotten the ralink dongle to work, but i use another dongle
[2:01] <Meizirkki> http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/UbuntuOnTheTouchBook#5394233871528486578
[2:02] <andrewgodwin> weird, I would have thought the ralink worked by now
[2:03] <virtual-penguin> neat Meiz
[2:03] <Meizirkki> older cards yes, but the one that comes with touchbook doesn't seem to work with out ralink drivers
[2:07] <andrewgodwin> weird, and it's not in the list of kernel patches either
[2:08] * azaghal (n=azaghal@ Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[2:10] <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: maybe you are missing firmware file?
[2:10] <Meizirkki> nop
[2:10] <Meizirkki> i copied it over from the AIOS
[2:11] <dpb> How do I find out the battery status?
[2:11] <jvs> Meizirkki, what are you trying to accomplish?
[2:12] <Meizirkki> dpb, There's a battery monitor at forums is OS Devel section
[2:13] <Meizirkki> jvs, i was trying to get the ralink dongle to work with ubuntu
[2:13] <jvs> ahh, ubuntu
[2:13] <jvs> ok, I see
[2:15] <dpb> Meizirkki: there's no command line utility *in* the OS?
[2:16] <dpb> Meizirkki: did you copy the modules from /lib/modules to ubuntu?
[2:19] <dpb> Meizirkki: what kind of power adaptor do you have to plug it in? I tried to check verkkokauppa.com, but the one I found has 4-8 weeks delivery...
[2:20] <Meizirkki> dpb, 1. I guess "lshal | grep battery" works. 2. I did. 3. http://innovatingtouch.com/index.php?topic=53.0
[2:22] <dpb> (is there page up/page down keys somewhere in this?)
[2:22] <Meizirkki> not in my unit :P
[2:24] <dpb> but it does have a print screen button... wth, who uses that?
[2:25] <dpb> one of the most useless keys there is anywhere..
[2:25] <andrewgodwin> oh my, that charger is scary
[2:25] <andrewgodwin> at least the charge tip is very similar to that of old nokia chargers, I might be able to harvest a few
[2:31] <Meizirkki> dpb, you could just get an adapter between the charger and wall, they sell those at Musta P?rssi for 6?
[2:31] * vorner (n=vorner@ has joined #touchbook
[2:32] <Meizirkki> i'm gonna get one of those, i'm a bit scared how much my current implementation will decreace the battery lifetime
[2:33] <vorner> tommd: Hello, I found you plan getting GHC onto touchbook. May I ask how successfull you have been so far? Thank you.
[2:33] <Meizirkki> GHC?
[2:34] <dpb> Haskell compiler
[2:34] <dpb> Meizirkki: lshal doesn't give me anything useful.. it just shows 0 :S
[2:35] <Meizirkki> but there should be percentage
[2:35] <dpb> which is 0
[2:35] <Meizirkki> O_o
[2:35] <dpb> does this show both of the batteries, or only one of them?
[2:36] <koen> that happened to me as well
[2:36] <Meizirkki> dunno
[2:36] <koen> till I left it attached to the charger for a day
[2:36] <Meizirkki> it shows the percentage of one bettry in ubunt
[2:36] <Meizirkki> u
[2:36] <dpb> Yeah, but which one?
[2:36] <dpb> koen: with the device on?
[2:37] <dpb> I'd like to know how to check if it's actually *charging* before I leave it to charge
[2:37] * Meizirkki should give a couple hours of charge to the tablet-part-only
[2:40] <dpb> battery.reporting.rate = 3 <- that normal?
[2:41] <dpb> and this keeps annoyingly blacking the screen...
[2:45] <blunderer> anybody have the issue that the tb seems to use tablet battery before the keyboard one?
[2:46] * Meizirkki raises his hand
[2:47] <dpb> how do I get the virtual keyboard?
[2:48] <koen> dpb: yes, with the device on
[2:48] <koen> dpb: pusing the ai buttons should popup the vkb in tablet mode
[2:48] <koen> button, that is
[2:49] <dpb> It just pops up the "3d" menu
[2:49] <blunderer> dpb: double press the button
[2:49] <blunderer> but it slooooooow
[2:50] <dpb> doesn't pop up
[2:50] * koen thinks python is not a good language to program stuff in for 600MHz class cpus
[2:52] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit ("Leaving")
[2:55] * vorner (n=vorner@ has left #touchbook
[2:55] <dpb> yeah..
[3:01] * Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@ Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
[3:06] * virtual-penguin (n=opensour@cpe-24-92-112-211.elp.res.rr.com) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]")
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[3:14] * vorner (n=vorner@ has joined #touchbook
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[3:32] <DJWillis> Corsac: have you ever encountered odd autotools issues building XFCE bits (both GIT HEAD and 4.6.1)?
[3:39] <andrewgodwin> yeah, my TB just used up its tablet battery
[3:39] <andrewgodwin> before the (fully-charged) keyboard
[3:39] <andrewgodwin> and now won't boot. sigh.
[3:44] * mkxc (n=mkxxxc@ has joined #touchbook
[3:55] * azaghal (n=azaghal@ Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[4:01] <dpb> whee, my device won't boot anymore...
[4:01] <andrewgodwin> dpb: charge the tablet portion directly for an hour or so
[4:01] <dpb> How can I, if I can't boot it?
[4:01] <andrewgodwin> (let me guess, it displays the AI logo, flashes random colours, quickly flashes please wait and turns off?)
[4:02] <dpb> doesn't even flash please wait
[4:02] <andrewgodwin> the tablet section charges when it's turned off
[4:02] <andrewgodwin> the turning-on thing is for charging through the base
[4:02] <dpb> everywhere they say it needs to be on
[4:02] <andrewgodwin> i know
[4:02] <andrewgodwin> they lie
[4:03] <fooq> is there some way to just switch the two batteries for testing purposes?
[4:03] <andrewgodwin> I've been discussing this with AI support, who recommended I do just that, and it worked
[4:03] <fooq> i mean if all your keyboard bats are full.... ?
[4:03] <andrewgodwin> not really, they're both attached directly to their devices
[4:03] <andrewgodwin> and are different shapes, too
[4:04] <fooq> ok
[4:04] <andrewgodwin> what I want to know is why my tablet only runs of its internal battery and not the keyboard one
[4:04] <dpb> andrewgodwin: ok, I'll try having the tablet directly connected.. thanks
[4:06] * vorner (n=vorner@ has joined #touchbook
[4:09] * Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #touchbook
[4:13] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ("Leaving.")
[4:15] * azaghal (n=azaghal@ has joined #touchbook
[4:17] * Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #touchbook
[4:20] <Corsac> DJWillis: hmhm, I don't remember, which kind of odd autotools stuff?
[4:20] <Corsac> on which component
[4:21] * Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[4:22] <dpb> Autotools is altogether odd.
[4:22] <Corsac> yeah
[4:23] * kizza (n=kizza@ has joined #touchbook
[4:24] <kizza> hi, I got my touchbook today, and it's having major problems
[4:25] <kizza> when I turn it on the screen goes white then fades to black
[4:27] <andrewgodwin> kizza: is there an SD card in it?
[4:27] <andrewgodwin> that sounds like you've got no bootloader
[4:27] <kizza> will check
[4:29] <kizza> just reseated the SD card, nothing
[4:30] <kizza> I think it could be the LCD, it doesn't look like it's a software thing
[4:34] <andrewgodwin> does the white look all pixel-y?
[4:34] <andrewgodwin> when I boot mine with no SD, it goes all white in small squares, then non-uniformly fades to back
[4:34] <andrewgodwin> much like an LCD with no data going to it
[4:34] <andrewgodwin> hrm, check your LCD cable is seated right?
[4:35] <kizza> yep, that's what I've got
[4:36] <kizza> I looked at the connection under the cable quickly and it looks fine. I'm worried about the battery blowing up on me :)
[4:37] <andrewgodwin> nah, it'll be fine
[4:37] <andrewgodwin> ignore today's XKCD
[4:37] <andrewgodwin> probably best to contact AI then
[4:40] <kizza> alright, thanks
[4:42] <dpb> Well the first impression I have on the device is that the batteries should have proper indicators of the status, hardware indicators.
[4:42] <dpb> Some led would be nice.
[4:43] <andrewgodwin> dpb: i agree.
[4:44] <dpb> kizza: there's been stuff about white -> fade to black problems on the forums, I can't remember what the problem was
[4:46] <kizza> yeah, that one was a loose cable
[4:50] * vorner (n=vorner@ has left #touchbook
[4:58] <Meizirkki_> which one os more attractive, my Tablet or my Table haha http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/UbuntuOnTheTouchBook#5394279110243360802
[5:01] * vorner (n=vorner@ has joined #touchbook
[5:13] <kizza> that's nice :)
[5:16] <DJWillis> Corsac: just odd macro stuff with autotools and most XFCE packages, Autotools makes me want to gouge my own eyes out most of the time.
[5:16] * kizza (n=kizza@ Quit ()
[5:24] <dpb> Meizirkki_: wtf painter monitor like that? :D
[5:24] <dpb> painted*
[5:25] <Stskeeps> Meizirkki_: no more lsd for you if you painted the monitor in that colour.
[5:28] <dpb> andrewgodwin: so I tried to charge the tablet for nearly 1.5 hours, still doesn't boot
[5:29] <Meizirkki_> Stskeeps, dpb: it was an ugly gray case, i though it'd become more elegany.. but no.. :D
[5:34] * Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[5:34] <vorner> dpb: I'd have an idea that could work (but I'm not sure it is OK to the HW) - if you take some wires and connect the keyboard battery in parallel to the tablet one, it should boot and start charging, then you could remove the keyboard one
[5:34] * vorner only guesses, doesn't have touchbook yet
[5:35] <dpb> hmm, should there be some light on the keyboard part when charging?
[5:36] * Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #touchbook
[5:38] <vorner> there should be one when charging the keyboard one
[5:38] * Meizirkki_ is now known as Meizirkki
[5:38] <dpb> Meizirkki: 15:37:36 dpb :: hmm, should there be some light on the keyboard part when charging?
[5:39] <dpb> vorner: should, but yours is just a guess.. :)
[5:39] <Meizirkki> there's a small led
[5:40] <Meizirkki> it has never turned green though
[5:40] <dpb> but it has *some* light?
[5:40] <dpb> Mine doesn't show any light..
[5:41] <Meizirkki> yes, the led is yellow while charging, green when full
[5:41] <Meizirkki> mine shown yellow when charging, but it has never showed that it's full
[5:42] <Meizirkki> maybe there's some intelligent charging control making my charger unable to put the whole 14A through..
[5:42] * asciiforever (n=asciifor@74-140-212-76.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #touchbook
[5:42] <dpb> damn, so my ac/dc adaptor seems to be broken then
[5:42] <Meizirkki> it's the original?
[5:48] * setanta (n=setanta@ has joined #touchbook
[5:49] * robclark (n=robclark@nat/ti/x-indlalgbpwhursji) has joined #touchbook
[5:51] <dpb> yes
[5:58] * Silvrado (i=3b5cf1c1@gateway/web/freenode/x-bpovcxpboueqzvtx) has joined #touchbook
[5:59] <Corsac> DJWillis: with very old or too recent autotoools?
[6:01] <Silvrado> hello has anyone worked with usb wifi adapter and BB?
[6:01] * diroots (n=diroots@ Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[6:01] * diroots (n=diroots@ has joined #touchbook
[6:03] <Meizirkki> Silvrado, TB you mean?
[6:03] <Silvrado> TB?
[6:04] <Meizirkki> Touch Book, you are in #touchbook channel...
[6:06] <Silvrado> oops sorry. no i'm working on BeagleBoard.
[6:07] <Silvrado> want to know the experiences of anyone who has worked on usb WiFi and BB
[6:08] <Silvrado> i was directed here.. so asked..
[6:09] <asciiforever> well, the touch book is based on the beagleboard, and uses a usb wifi adapter
[6:12] * fooq (n=reini@cm56-152-97.liwest.at) Quit ()
[6:14] * spvensko (n=spvensko@adsl-074-239-169-046.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #touchbook
[6:16] <Silvrado> oh good.
[6:16] <Silvrado> asciiforever: which usb wifi adapter is used?
[6:16] <Silvrado> belkin one?
[6:17] <Silvrado> and it runs angstrom distro?
[6:17] <asciiforever> Ralink 3070, says the wiki
[6:17] <asciiforever> and yes, more or less
[6:18] <asciiforever> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Wifi
[6:20] <DJWillis> Ralink 3070 is reasonable under Linux and reasonable on the BB but it will not break any speed records ;-)
[6:20] <Silvrado> hmm.. thanks for the links..
[6:21] <DJWillis> Silvrado: there are several USB dongles that are fine on the Beagle.
[6:21] <Silvrado> oh ok. and are there any reliability issues?
[6:22] <asciiforever> i haven't experienced problems
[6:22] <DJWillis> Silvrado: general EHCI issues on the Beagle do not help matters.
[6:22] <DJWillis> Silvrado: what revision is you BB?
[6:22] <Silvrado> i'm using it to control an aerial vehicle. so u can sense the amount of reliability reqd..
[6:23] <Silvrado> um.. i dunno yet. i'l get to see it tomo..
[6:23] <Silvrado> its with my professor..
[6:25] <DJWillis> Silvrado: well there are some EHCI issues with a lot of the OMAP3 boards in everything but there most recent iterations that can cause the odd EHCI issue under load but WiFi should not overload anything assuming your not doing much else with the EHCI, if you run into issues you can use the mUSG OTG port in host mode, that is very solid yet slow'ish.
[6:26] * NPX (i=npx@server3.raumopol.de) has joined #touchbook
[6:28] <Silvrado> hmm.. ok. i'l need some time to digest it all.. :-)
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[6:43] <andrewgodwin> I do wonder when the top battery's reporting will get better than "0%", "5%" or "55%"
[6:44] <koen> andrewgodwin: when someone writes better kernel drivers for it :)
[6:44] * spvensko (n=spvensko@adsl-074-239-169-046.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[6:46] <andrewgodwin> when they write a python kernel, I'll write drivers :)
[6:46] <Meizirkki> andrewgodwin, I get very accurate charge percentage of the bottom-part battery here.
[6:46] <Meizirkki> (top-part battery isn't showing up at all)
[6:52] <andrewgodwin> yes, bottom part is great
[6:52] <andrewgodwin> it's the top part I care about
[6:52] <andrewgodwin> I can't tell when it's full
[6:53] * Meizirkki plugged the charger directly to the top-part about 5 hours ago.
[6:54] <Meizirkki> When the charger is plugged to the bottom-part, I have a feeling it stops charging both batteries when the bootom-one is full.. I'm gonna give some good charge to the top-battery and see if it helps
[7:00] * spvensko (n=spvensko@nom19345a.nomadic.ncsu.edu) has joined #touchbook
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[7:16] <andrewgodwin> Meizirkki: yes, I suspect that two
[7:16] <andrewgodwin> my top's on the charger directly for some juice
[7:20] <dpb> Found a charger with 5V and 2A, seems to work, but probably takes ages for it to charge..
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[7:25] <dpb> the screen blacking is really starting to annoy...
[7:27] <Meizirkki> dpb: Install Kubuntu, open up the powerdevil plasma applet, select presentation mode and your screen will never blank :P
[7:28] <Meizirkki> *sigh* it takes hours to build kernel on TB..
[7:30] <andrewgodwin> Meizirkki: shocking, that
[7:30] <Meizirkki> over an hour now
[7:31] <dpb> lol, why do you do that? just build it on your desktop..
[7:31] * Silvrado (i=3b5cf1c1@gateway/web/freenode/x-bpovcxpboueqzvtx) has left #touchbook
[7:31] <Meizirkki> dpb, i don't have brains enough to install cross-compile stuff
[7:32] <dpb> you just need to unpack the toolchain somewhere and point the kernel make to it
[7:33] * Meizirkki facepalms at himself
[7:33] <dpb> why do you need to recompile the kernel anyway?
[7:33] <Meizirkki> dpb, i have not having the governor control, my TB is hot as hell and batteries are empty too soon
[7:33] <Meizirkki> s/have/hate
[7:35] <Meizirkki> There's no point owning an ARM-laptop if the cpu drains as much power as an Intel Atom ;)
[7:35] <dpb> Well I doubt the governors work without some kernel hacking..
[7:36] <Meizirkki> o_O
[7:36] <Meizirkki> isn't it just that the AI kernel lacks the driver..?
[7:36] <Stskeeps> eh, there better be governor on omap3..
[7:37] <koen> if you use openembedded it will build a kernel with cpufreq enable by default (but with last months tb patches)
[7:37] * jvs (n=jvs@dyn167190.wlan.jku.at) Quit ("Leaving")
[7:37] <dpb> Meizirkki: if it were that easy, I bet the AI people would have added it already.
[7:37] <Meizirkki> okay
[7:37] <Meizirkki> isn't there a big bunch of beagle kernels with working governor support?
[7:37] <dpb> koen: and it works alright with the device?
[7:37] <koen> dpb: you do know that AI is Gregoire only, right?
[7:37] <koen> dpb: it works
[7:37] <Meizirkki> koen, it's not
[7:38] <dpb> There's atleast other people in the support :)
[7:38] <koen> Meizirkki: funny, Gregoire himself said that to me last week
[7:38] <koen> there are a few contractors, but AI has no employees :)
[7:39] <andrewgodwin> also, cross-compiling isn't too hard, Meizirkki
[7:39] <andrewgodwin> i have a i386-elf toolchain, for example
[7:39] <dpb> koen: I bet he told that in secret to you. He wouldn't tell us when we asked in irc.
[7:40] <koen> the secret part is the number of contractors and their contracts :)
[7:40] <dpb> But still, the contractors do count as a part of it.
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[7:52] <KreeBaa> Hi ALl
[7:52] <KreeBaa> all
[7:52] <KreeBaa> So the touchbook is running on an arm processor right
[7:53] <KreeBaa> with a custom linux build on it?
[7:53] <KreeBaa> have there been tests into how well it runs wine and windows applications?
[7:53] <KreeBaa> I am basically looking at it as a capture device for my evernote account
[7:55] <vorner> wine isn't emulator, it needs native x86 processor, so, it probably does run only arm windows applications
[7:55] <Stskeeps> that said, you can probably use IMAP for evernote
[7:55] <Stskeeps> and export to it
[7:57] <dpb> vorner: probably not even those, I doubt wine has been ported to arm
[7:57] <andrewgodwin> if you were very evil, you could run wine through qemu
[7:57] * dpb shivers
[7:58] <andrewgodwin> but that would be _horrifically_ slow
[8:02] <andrewgodwin> presumably there's some windows CE apps that run on arm
[8:04] <KreeBaa> ah ok
[8:05] <KreeBaa> love the look of the touchbook, but tbh i need a x86 chip
[8:05] <KreeBaa> ah well
[8:13] * Janno_freenode is now known as Eruquen
[8:14] <andrewgodwin> KreeBaa: because you want to run windows apps?
[8:14] * Meizirkki heard someone saying "_horrifically_ slow" and decided to try it
[8:15] <andrewgodwin> uh-oh
[8:15] <andrewgodwin> any results?
[8:15] <andrewgodwin> or is the arm chip on fire?
[8:15] <Meizirkki> haha
[8:15] <Meizirkki> i'll try it
[8:15] <Meizirkki> not yet, but someday :)
[8:16] * Meizirkki doesn't understand himself sometimes
[8:16] * andrewgodwin is of the opinion that, if you try that, a little hand should come out and slap you
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[8:34] <dpb> Is there some doc somewhere telling what Fn-keys there is?
[8:35] <Meizirkki> http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Keyboard_shortcuts
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[8:46] <dpb> Meizirkki: thanks
[8:56] <Meizirkki> Is there some tricks needed to get audio working?
[8:56] <Meizirkki> (on ubuntu)
[9:00] <andrewgodwin> Meizirkki: apart from having the right drivers? no.
[9:01] <Meizirkki> and what is the driver..?
[9:02] <andrewgodwin> what's the card?
[9:02] * andrewgodwin lspcis
[9:03] * asciiforever (n=asciifor@74-140-212-76.dhcp.insightbb.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[9:03] <andrewgodwin> oh, wait
[9:07] <Meizirkki> lshal | grep sound gets me "sound.card_id = omap3beagle"
[9:07] <Meizirkki> i should just check how it's done on BB
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[9:15] <Meizirkki> it looks like no tricks needed with beagle..
[9:17] <Meizirkki> maybe rebooting after installing sound stuff would help :P
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[9:42] <Meizirkki> Finally!
[9:42] <Meizirkki> kernel build
[9:42] <Meizirkki> s/d/t
[9:54] * mkxc (n=mkxxxc@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[9:56] <Meizirkki> uImage is not there.. >_<
[9:57] <Stskeeps> make uImage?
[9:57] <Meizirkki> yes
[9:58] <Stskeeps> check arch/arm/boot or something
[9:58] * tommd (n=Thomas_D@dhcp-223-19.seas.pdx.edu) has joined #touchbook
[9:58] <Meizirkki> Stskeeps, up, i repatched board-omap3beagle.c and it seems to be building ok now
[9:59] <Meizirkki> where did that up, come from ?? ^
[10:04] <Stskeeps> ok
[10:14] * spvensko (n=spvensko@nom19440a.nomadic.ncsu.edu) Quit ()
[10:15] <Meizirkki> okay, cya
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[11:38] <UMC> heelloo
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[11:49] <Meizirkki> hi
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[12:03] <npx> Meizirkki, so you removed mer again?
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[12:21] <koen> there, network-manager and gnome-power-manager working on my touchbook
[12:22] <DJWillis> koen: I noticed you had been busy. Support for both batts or just the bottom on, and XFCE or E (or Gnome) on yours right now.
[12:23] <koen> hal 'supports' both
[12:23] <koen> it just reads '0' on one all the time
[12:23] <koen> no idea if that is a problem with my battery, kernel drivers or hal
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[12:26] <UMC_> so does anybody know where I could get some good ipkgs
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[12:26] <andrewgodwin> koen: how well does networkmanager work?
[12:28] <koen> UMC_: from the preconfigured feeds, using anything other is madness
[12:28] <koen> andrewgodwin: pretty good, but it's still networkmanager we're talking about
[12:28] <UMC_> cool thanks
[12:29] <DJWillis> koen: no connman? Your getting all 'heavy weight' ;-)
[12:30] <koen> DJWillis: there's no gui for connman, so regular users will get los
[12:30] <DJWillis> koen: true
[12:40] * MMlosh (n=MMlosh@2001:470:1f0b:b78:2c9e:eddf:4cb4:6ee7) Quit ("Bye...")
[12:43] <andrewgodwin> i thought connman _did_ have a gui
[12:44] <koen> it did in the past, not most of it is #if 0'd
[12:44] <koen> shows just an icon with signal strength
[12:45] <andrewgodwin> ah.
[12:45] <azaghal> What are advantages of connman over networkmanager?
[12:45] <andrewgodwin> it's not got an ass-backwards architecture?
[12:45] <azaghal> And the regular - any news on October batch? ;)
[12:46] <azaghal> I know networkmanager annoyed me from time to time.
[12:46] <azaghal> (mostly its "integration" with base system)
[12:46] <andrewgodwin> it does, however, have the advantage of Just Working
[12:47] <andrewgodwin> I have a co-worker whose laptop's wifi will not work without NM
[12:47] <andrewgodwin> it does some special magic he can't do via the commandline easily
[12:47] <azaghal> What I never could setup is to make it get an IP over DHCP without killing the statically-configured eth0.1
[12:48] <andrewgodwin> ah yes, I've never tried taunting it with virtual interfaces
[12:48] <koen> connman has a cleaner design since it learned from nm's mistakes
[12:48] <koen> but since it lacks a gui....
[12:48] <azaghal> What prevents one from making a GUI? Does it use d-bus?
[12:48] <andrewgodwin> i'll take a look at its dbus docs later
[12:49] <andrewgodwin> I've written a command-line tool for NM, that was a right pain
[12:49] <azaghal> Ah, so it does have dbus... Shouldn't be too much of a problem then.
[12:49] <tommd> andrewgodwin: Whats wrong with cnetworkmanager?
[12:49] <andrewgodwin> tommd: It didn't exist then
[12:49] <azaghal> :D
[12:50] <andrewgodwin> however, I never got my code to quite work
[12:50] <tommd> andrewgodwin: Well then you obviously wasted your time writing one when you could have just built a time machine and went to the future to get one.
[12:50] <tommd> But good work.
[12:51] <andrewgodwin> yeah, I always forget about the damn time machine
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[13:52] <npx> have you already tried it by yourself?
[13:59] <npx> mer really looks promising but my hopes are still in the improvement of the TB os :<
[14:00] <npx> but mer in tablet mode would rock
[14:00] <npx> luckily i got 2 sd cards :D
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[14:13] <npx> hows it running? :D
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[17:13] <shiznebit|TB> anyone around ?
[17:18] * rhl6856 (n=rhl6856@cpe-74-69-90-113.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #touchbook
[17:18] <rhl6856> hello?
[17:18] <rhl6856> anyone alive here?
[17:20] <shiznebit|TB> yarh
[17:20] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: you got a touch book
[17:20] <rhl6856> im interested in purchasing one
[17:20] <rhl6856> im a bit hesitant though
[17:21] <shiznebit|TB> why ?
[17:21] <shiznebit|TB> im on it rigt now
[17:21] <rhl6856> the forums suggest that the hardware is flimsy
[17:21] <rhl6856> im worried about that
[17:21] <rhl6856> #1
[17:21] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: how so ?
[17:21] <rhl6856> reports of wiggling and instability
[17:22] <shiznebit|TB> its just driver bugs
[17:22] <rhl6856> and monitor damage by applying pressure to the back of the case
[17:22] <rhl6856> instability i.e. hardware not software
[17:22] <shiznebit|TB> applying pressure to the back
[17:22] <rhl6856> like, things wobble
[17:22] <shiznebit|TB> back of what ... the screen
[17:22] <rhl6856> yeah, like the red part I assume
[17:22] <rhl6856> also -- what is the backorder status like
[17:22] * spvensko (n=spvensko@nom23452b.nomadic.ncsu.edu) has joined #touchbook
[17:23] <rhl6856> and also, what about using it you know -- for a tablet, i want to write with it
[17:23] <rhl6856> for lectures
[17:23] <rhl6856> and it has no vga port -- what do I do?
[17:23] <rhl6856> no stylus?
[17:23] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: im sorry but the red part is FAR from the screen
[17:23] <shiznebit|TB> it has a stylus
[17:23] <rhl6856> cool
[17:23] <rhl6856> it ships with it?
[17:23] <shiznebit|TB> yeah
[17:24] <shiznebit|TB> you have to program xournal to register touch-screenat a certain part of the screen
[17:24] <rhl6856> oh, what do you mean by that?
[17:25] <shiznebit|TB> well umm otherwise it would register your palm as well
[17:25] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: correct it has no vga
[17:26] <rhl6856> im not sure what you mean by that
[17:26] <rhl6856> "
[17:26] <rhl6856> [8:24pm] shiznebit|TB: you have to program xournal to register touch-screenat a certain part of the screen"
[17:26] <rhl6856> is that actually hard?
[17:26] <rhl6856> i mean what do you mean, i have to write some software to make it work?
[17:26] <shiznebit|TB> im trying to figure out how to do that
[17:27] <rhl6856> or do you mean, just configure it
[17:27] <shiznebit|TB> no
[17:27] <shiznebit|TB> the software is there
[17:27] <shiznebit|TB> just when you write you have to keep your palm off the screen
[17:27] <rhl6856> ah, yeah, ok
[17:27] <rhl6856> that is slightly complicated...
[17:28] <rhl6856> would a USB -> VGA adapter work ?
[17:28] <shiznebit|TB> so im trying to figure out how to have an area that wont be registererd
[17:28] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: not that i know of, they need to have processors builtin
[17:28] <rhl6856> oh, so I can't use a vga out, period?
[17:29] <shiznebit|TB> there wont be enoughg horse power o nthe arm to have it display
[17:29] <shiznebit|TB> maybe there is a way
[17:29] <shiznebit|TB> just i don't know of it
[17:30] <rhl6856> i guess its hard to justify the purchase, when compared to just putting linux on another netbook tablet
[17:30] <shiznebit|TB> do what you like
[17:31] <shiznebit|TB> i think its neat to have something unique
[17:32] <rhl6856> yeah, but i want something I can use
[17:32] <rhl6856> lol
[17:32] <rhl6856> i mean, i want it too
[17:32] <rhl6856> but i want it to do what I need
[17:32] <rhl6856> at a $400 pricetag it's cheap, but not that cheap
[17:33] <shiznebit|TB> i can use it just fine
[17:33] <rhl6856> yeah, but i want to use it mainly for two things
[17:33] <rhl6856> typing/reading papers and giving lectures
[17:33] <rhl6856> and writing on my latex powerpoints
[17:33] <rhl6856> if I can't display with it
[17:34] <rhl6856> its sadly disqualified
[17:34] <shiznebit|TB> thers no point... igot ya
[17:34] * spvensko (n=spvensko@nom23452b.nomadic.ncsu.edu) Quit ()
[17:34] <rhl6856> i mean, it's otherwise an excellent device
[17:34] <rhl6856> i am looking at the t91 and the s7, but both dont run linux by default
[17:34] <rhl6856> im afraid of putting linux will not work properly
[17:35] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: you should wait for some TB veterans and ask the same question
[17:35] <rhl6856> who are they
[17:36] * jham_ (n=jham@nat/google/x-sxbxnhnisnkwzmtu) has joined #touchbook
[17:36] <shiznebit|TB> hyc NPX gregoire is here once a blue-moon
[17:36] <rhl6856> hyc ?
[17:36] <rhl6856> NPX?
[17:37] <shiznebit|TB> those are their nicks
[17:37] <rhl6856> cool
[17:37] <jham_> Does anyone have Android running on their Touch Book?
[17:37] <rhl6856> whom are they
[17:38] <shiznebit|TB> rhl6856: if android has a method of displaying the PP on a big screen off the device, im sure there is a way to accomplish it
[17:38] * alexandre (n=alexandr@adsl-99-138-86-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #touchbook
[17:38] <shiznebit|TB> for the touchbook
[17:38] <shiznebit|TB> the n900 has video out as well
[17:40] <rhl6856> shiznebit
[17:40] <rhl6856> do you think it is too small to write on?
[17:42] <shiznebit|TB> too small
[17:42] <shiznebit|TB> are you shaq ?
[17:42] <shiznebit|TB> im 5'7 for me ifeels a tiny bit cramped
[17:44] <shiznebit|TB> if your using landscape ishould be fine
[17:44] <shiznebit|TB> portrait would definetly
[17:44] <shiznebit|TB> feel squished
[17:44] <rhl6856> how much bigger is a piece of paper
[17:44] <rhl6856> ?
[17:44] <rhl6856> lol
[17:44] <rhl6856> than the screen
[17:45] <rhl6856> like if you put an 8.5 x 11 piece of white pc paper on top of it
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[17:45] <shiznebit|TB> off tte screen or the entire tablet
[17:45] <rhl6856> both
[17:46] <shiznebit|TB> ill measure it later
[17:46] <rhl6856> but is it much?
[17:46] <shiznebit|TB> class yeah
[17:46] <rhl6856> class?
[17:46] <shiznebit|TB> ill be out of class soon
[17:46] <rhl6856> ah
[17:46] <rhl6856> cool
[17:46] <rhl6856> what class
[17:46] <rhl6856> where
[17:46] <shiznebit|TB> NYU
[17:46] <rhl6856> topic?
[17:47] <shiznebit|TB> global warming
[17:47] <rhl6856> i grew up near NYC... hudson valley, im in rochester now
[17:47] <shiznebit|TB> NYU POLY
[17:47] <rhl6856> ah yeah, where is that?
[17:47] <shiznebit|TB> heh brooklyn
[17:47] <rhl6856> yeah
[17:47] <rhl6856> thats right
[17:47] <rhl6856> so you study what?
[17:47] <shiznebit|TB> it used to be called polytechnic university
[17:47] <rhl6856> yeah, i remember that
[17:48] <shiznebit|TB> BMS, ChemE
[17:48] <rhl6856> alright, cool
[17:49] <UMC> so Does anybody know where I can get some replacement feet for my keyboard?
[17:50] * rhl6856 (n=rhl6856@cpe-74-69-90-113.rochester.res.rr.com) Quit ()
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[18:14] <UMC> rubber feet purchasing locations? anybody?
[18:27] <GUido-> try the internet
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[19:15] <wgraham_tb> Yay!
[19:15] <wgraham_tb> Logged in through my touchbook
[19:16] <wgraham_tb> ...first experiment with linux btw
[19:16] <wgraham_tb> Had to patch detect_cards manually :D
[19:18] <ratonk__> wgraham_tb: excuse me, but i would like to know when did you pre-order your touchbook
[19:18] <wgraham_tb> March I believe
[19:18] <ratonk__> it seems my pre-order hasas been skipped, as some int'l has been proceded, and my pre-order was months before they open int'l pre-orders
[19:18] <ratonk__> ah ok
[19:18] <ratonk__> i was after march, so seems normal
[19:18] <ratonk__> thx man
[19:20] <wgraham_tb> np
[19:20] <wgraham_tb> just a note
[19:20] <wgraham_tb> when you get it, read the wiki re: separating magnets. i learned how to do it the hard way
[19:21] <ratonk__> ah sure
[19:21] <ratonk__> i read about this already ;)
[19:21] <ratonk__> i hope ur hands are okay
[19:21] <wgraham_tb> lol!
[19:21] <wgraham_tb> they'll recover
[19:22] <ratonk__> anyway how about play with touchbook ?
[19:23] <wgraham_tb> heh took me a while to fix the wifi after python updated
[19:23] <wgraham_tb> now im trying to figure out how to edit the start menu
[19:24] <wgraham_tb> btw: tips appeciated :|
[19:28] <wgraham_tb> anyone?
[19:31] <wgraham_tb> :(
[19:35] * rhl6856 (n=rhl6856@urwireless-dhcp-128-151-24-67.wireless.rochester.edu) Quit ()
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[19:41] <wgraham_tb> i love this thing.
[19:42] <wgraham_tb> wow... record cold this morning
[19:42] <wgraham_tb> 30
[19:50] <drantin> ratonk__: they're not shipping on a first come first serve basis
[19:50] <ratonk__> drantin: so what is theeir rule ?
[19:50] <drantin> ratonk__: my dad preordered 2 months after me and got his, decided he didn't like it, I canceled my order and bought his from him
[19:50] <ratonk__> based on ratingof your need/developping and so on
[19:50] <ratonk__> ?
[19:50] <ratonk__> how comes?
[19:51] <drantin> no clue, I rated myself as very interested in the development, beta stages, etc. filled in my history with linux in general, and my dad marks his as wanting a finished product and he gets his first...
[19:52] <shiznebit> drantin: whats your opinion
[19:52] <drantin> I like it a lot, but the blasted backlight keeps auto-shutting off
[19:52] <shiznebit> s
[19:53] <shiznebit> yeah
[19:53] <ratonk__> so that's random choosing in the database then ?
[19:53] <shiznebit> and dont try putting it in sleep
[19:53] <shiznebit> cause if you do everythin gets FUCKED UP
[19:53] <drantin> and there needs to be a repository for specific touchbook packages if they're going to be deviating from angstrom in such a way that installing anything pulls libc6 updates and breaks it all
[19:53] <shiznebit> yeah
[19:53] <shiznebit> lol
[19:54] <shiznebit> CTRL + ALT + DELETE > Sleep
[19:54] <shiznebit> = mess up everyting
[19:55] <shiznebit> oh well, its mostly software thats the limitation
[19:55] <shiznebit> what did you dad hate about it drantin ?
[19:56] <drantin> mostly his unfamiliarity with linux and there was no clear way to go about installing things
[19:56] <drantin> and he didn't know what to install, etc
[19:56] <drantin> he was quite happy with the stuff that is on it though
[19:56] <shiznebit> so user ignorance
[19:57] <drantin> somewhat, he's a windows power user, but not so heavy on anything *nix from the past 2 decades
[19:58] <drantin> if there was a clear way to search the installable packages, etc that didn't involve the command line and had decent search functionality, he'd have been happy
[20:00] <drantin> I don't think he can hear you, perhaps if you shout a bit louder?
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[20:23] * shiznebit_G1 is now known as Tommy
[20:23] * Tommy is now known as Guest23882
[20:23] * Guest23882 is now known as shiznebit
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[20:51] <rhl6856> is anyone here who is a touchbook guru?
[20:52] <shiznebit> rhl6856: have you askedd in the forums
[20:52] <rhl6856> not yet
[20:52] <rhl6856> im writing my thesis lol
[20:52] <rhl6856> i just thought i'd check in
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[21:17] <iteria> I just got my touchbook and I have a quick question. How do I know how much space I have left. It says, "Free space is reported by Storage Control Panel" but I do't see anything about storage under the control panel menu.
[21:30] <iteria> I... guess no one's here...
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[21:55] <rhl6856> shiznebit, still there?
[21:55] <rhl6856> https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=349
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[22:49] <alongst> Hi. Anyone know how to become root on the default install?
[22:50] <alongst> Also, how to suspend - no s2ram / s2disk nor hibernate script found.
[22:52] <Meizirkki> sudo -s
[22:53] <dpb> this flips the screen around way too easy..
[22:59] * alongst (n=alon@ Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[23:05] <dpb> Meizirkki: btw, the charge led is green for me now :)
[23:06] <Meizirkki> dpb, okay :) can you see the top-battery info in lshal os anywhere btw?
[23:06] <Meizirkki> s/os/or
[23:08] <dpb> I added the widgets from the forums
[23:09] <dpb> it says supply_capacity 90
[23:09] <Meizirkki> k, i can't see how much charge in the top-battery :(
[23:09] <Meizirkki> bottom one works perfectly
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[23:31] * DJWillis (i=djwillis@82-46-19-72.cable.ubr02.bath.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("Manny: It's my scythe. I like to keep it next to where my heart used to be.")
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