#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-09-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[2:37] <Q_Continuum> Is the Touchbook using a stock beagle board, or is it based on the beagle board design, but customized? (I spotted the reference to the beagle board on the touch book site)
[2:39] <Corsac> the latter
[2:40] <Q_Continuum> I figured, since I doubt the touchbook would use svideo or a DVI connection :-D
[2:43] <Simeon_H> why are you so happy
[2:48] <Q_Continuum> Oh, just imaging a netbook with two extra video connections hiding inside is funny.
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[3:20] <koen> I wish the TB had a dvi out like the beagle
[3:20] <koen> since most netbooks on the market party like it's 1999 with their vga out
[3:21] <Potatoes_> Hi
[3:21] <cantor> sup yal
[3:21] <koen> but then again, I have like 8 beagleboards to hook up to my TV
[3:21] <Potatoes_> Has anyone tried h264 playback on the touchbook?
[3:21] <Potatoes_> Does it include the binary codecs from TI?
[3:25] <Meizirkki> Potatoes_, i think NEON optimized codecs are built-in
[3:26] <Potatoes_> so it uses the DSP/
[3:26] <Potatoes_> ?
[3:27] <koen> the TI gstreamer plugins that use the DSP and accelerators are freely downloadable
[3:28] <koen> but most mediaplayers (e.g. totem) don't handle them well currently
[3:28] <Potatoes_> and players like mplayer that don't use gstreamer wouldn't work at all?
[3:28] <koen> mplayer has the ffmpeg NEON bits to help
[3:29] <mjr> earlier from this channel from hyc on DSP codecs;
[3:29] <mjr> 12:19 < hyc> And TI provides DSP codecs for mpeg2/mpeg4, so you can play those with very little CPU overhead at all
[3:29] <mjr> 12:19 < hyc> they also provide a H.264BP decoder, but unfortunately a lot of H.264 video out there uses MP not BP
[3:29] <mjr> 12:20 < hyc> I just got hold of their H.264MP/HP decoder, but it's for the DM6467, so it's not directly usable here. The DSP in the DM6467 is the same as in OMAP3530, but it's clocked about 2x as fast
[3:29] <Potatoes_> oh, that's a problem then
[3:29] <Potatoes_> thanks for the info
[3:30] <mjr> 12:22 < hyc> at some point I may take a crack at porting it over anyway. may be able to replace the functions they call in the HDVICP library with equiva
[3:30] <mjr> lent code, even if it's slower.
[3:30] <mjr> (note that's "may take a crack at" from a non-TI-guy)
[3:30] <Potatoes_> perhaps it would accelerate enough for the cpu to do the rest?
[3:31] <Potatoes_> or is it all or nothing like vdpau
[3:31] <mjr> afaik pretty much all or nothing
[3:31] <Meizirkki> http://alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Applications_list totem "Play multimedia file with DSP support""
[3:31] <Potatoes_> the only gpu decoder I've heard of that wasn't is the gallium3d one
[3:32] <mjr> basically hyc thought it could probably do a decent job on this hardware too _if_ he got it running, since it's specced to be able to run 1080p on the faster hardware
[3:32] <Potatoes_> aah, so it might do 720p
[3:32] <Potatoes_> since 720 is generally half as difficult or less to decode
[3:33] <mjr> might, but that's only if he got it running or TI does an official port
[3:33] <Potatoes_> or a later revision uses the upgraded hardware
[3:34] <mjr> oh, a clarifying line was missing: 12:20 < hyc> also, the DM6467 has this thing called HDVICP which is a proprietary hardware accelerator
[3:34] <mjr> so, the mp/hp decoder uses that for some stuff, so the thing was those calls would need to be rewritten to even try it
[3:34] <Potatoes_> ah, so that's why it's not such a simple software port
[3:35] <mjr> anyway, just relaying interesting information here; the safe bet is that only bp will work
[3:35] <mjr> or, the conservative assumption, rather
[3:37] <Potatoes_> yeah, it can take time for these things
[3:37] <Potatoes_> sort of like the ATI drivers for linux....
[3:40] <cantor> Does the Touchbook use flash for youtube? or Gnash? or some other solution for flash applications......
[3:40] <Corsac> can't use flash at the moment
[3:40] <Corsac> since there's no public-available flash player for arm
[3:40] <cantor> so no youtube?
[3:41] <Corsac> though I'm wondering if it'd be authorized, if you own a n8x0, to use the flashplayer it ships on the touchbook
[3:41] <Potatoes_> if it would actually work
[3:42] <Potatoes_> it ships a binary probably
[3:42] <koen> Corsac: there's gnash, swfdec and you can license flashlite
[3:42] <Potatoes_> lol gnash...
[3:42] <Potatoes_> those support flash 7 or lower still?
[3:43] <koen> currently the firefox in touchbook intercepts youtube movies and passed them to mplayer
[3:43] <Potatoes_> and it works?
[3:43] <cantor> thanks koen
[3:43] <Potatoes_> that's clever
[3:43] <koen> it works
[3:43] <jvs> I hope youtube will dump flash
[3:43] <jvs> the sooner the beeter
[3:43] <koen> and in theory allows redirection to a DSP based player to lower cpu usage
[3:43] <jvs> *better
[3:43] <Potatoes_> with the new html5
[3:43] <Potatoes_> maybe they will
[3:44] <jvs> well, I believe google is no adobe fanboy :)
[3:44] * koen loves http://www.youtube.com/html5
[3:44] <Potatoes_> is flash h264 baseline?
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[6:11] <Corsac> koen: I meant adobe flash
[6:12] <Corsac> http://www.youtube.com/html5 ??? You must have an HTML5 capable browser.
[6:12] <Corsac> :(
[6:12] * Corsac tries with midori
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[9:06] <Corsac> hey hyc
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[15:42] <srobertson> hey all. i'm having some crazy issues with my TouchBook which have prevented me from getting to work on it.
[15:43] <srobertson> they seem USB-related - the keyboard in the base randomly disconnects, often whenever the wireless card is accessed...
[15:43] <tommd> Random disconnects of the keyboard don't seem uncommon, unfortunately.
[15:43] <srobertson> the wireless card itself often crashes, and at a minimum pegs the CPU at 100%...
[15:44] <srobertson> and now I can't get any USB device aside from the base to work at all.
[15:44] <tommd> Wow, the wireless card crashes - how do you define that?
[15:44] <tommd> You mean when you use wireless the system crashes?
[15:44] <tommd> Or the wireless just doesn't work - as in it disconnects?
[15:45] <srobertson> Sorry, yeah. The kernel-space processes spawned by the wireless driver will compete for 100% CPU whenever wpa_supplicant is running. this causes instability, and has in more than one instance made the device non-responsive
[15:45] <srobertson> to the point of having to hard-power-off
[15:46] <tommd> I'll have to look at that (if its still an issue) when I get mine.
[15:46] <srobertson> never got it to connect to my AP, although it is using WPA.
[15:46] <tommd> FYI: There are wpa instructions and a script online
[15:46] <tommd> because, at least at one time, the WPA was known to be buggy.
[15:47] <tommd> I would look at the forums and the wiki under their "support" section
[15:56] <srobertson> hmm. powering on via battery, the usb devices lit up until the desktop loaded and a service tried to use the network
[15:57] <srobertson> then a "Bulk In Failed" message, an attempt by the wireless driver to disable and re-enable the device (from RtmpOSNetDeviceDetach()),
[15:58] <srobertson> a ton of "device disconnected" messages, and a few more error messages from RTUSB
[15:58] <srobertson> now the usb hub is dead. hmm...
[15:59] <tommd> People have theorized that there is a power issue on the USB line - that the voltage drops too low and causes various problems.
[15:59] <tommd> When booting up either on battery or without the bottom.
[16:00] <srobertson> certainly seems possible. maybe i can take it to a lab on campus and find out
[16:07] <srobertson> interesting. with nothing but a flash drive attached, rotating the device killed it.
[16:07] <srobertson> i'm going to butcher a USB cable and find some answers.
[16:08] <tommd> srobertson: Exactly what I said, but I don't have a TB to test with yet.
[16:10] <tommd> srobertson: Would you be willing to post your results on the forum? I'm really interested.
[16:11] <tommd> Ah, and FYI - there are about five threads on USB issues alone, but one is here http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53
[16:11] <tommd> In it someone noticed booting with a GPS dongle and no bottom half caused issues - possibly power. The latest OS fixed the problem, but I'm not sure if it just avoided the issue by starting the dongle later.
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[16:28] <shiznebit-G1> anyone know if we really are gonna get touchbooks ?
[16:29] <tommd> Who's 'we'? Many people already have theirs.
[16:29] <shiznebit-G1> like who ?
[16:30] <shiznebit-G1> people who preordered before april ?
[16:31] <tommd> Yep
[16:32] <shiznebit-G1> and those who preordered towards may ?
[16:32] <shiznebit-G1> tommd did you receive yours ?
[16:32] <tommd> Nope - I "preordered" in June.
[16:33] <shiznebit-G1> so your with the 'we'
[16:33] <shiznebit-G1> so any clue ? if we'll get it in october ?
[16:33] <tommd> Yes - I am one of the many who have yet to get theirs.
[16:34] <tommd> shiznebit-G1: There is a clue, in august they said "In October, we should be able to fulfill all existing pre-orders. "
[16:34] <tommd> Choosing to believe that or not is up to you. I'm not going to argue for or against small companies and their track record on deadlines.
[16:36] <shiznebit-G1> still can't wait to get mine
[16:36] <srobertson> tommd: the DC +5V rail on my TB is clean - almost surprisingly so. either a really good regulator or my second-hand scope could be missing things (which is quite possible).
[16:38] <shiznebit-G1> what does clean mean in this context ?
[16:38] <tommd> Thats interesting - thanks for letting me know srobertson. If it were flaky then I probably would cancel my order, as it is I'm trusting it is truly a software issue.
[16:38] <srobertson> with one device connected (plus my frankencable), the power did drop at several instances when rotating the device. it bounced right back each time. i need to verify that i didn't short my probes while rotating, but i'm pretty confident i didn't.
[16:38] <tommd> shiznebit-G1: The USB power is supposed to stay at 5V (+/- some amount, perhaps 0.2V).
[16:39] <shiznebit-G1> so it didn't go below that ?
[16:39] <srobertson> the device also offlined and came back. when connecting two devices, however (my flash drive and internal bluetooth), at some point rotating killed the bus
[16:39] <tommd> srobertson: when rotating, as in physically and the screen adjusted to the tall view?
[16:39] <srobertson> tommd, yep
[16:39] <srobertson> shiznebit-G1, also yep
[16:40] <shiznebit-G1> srobertson so are you saying that device is not perfect ?
[16:40] <mjr> (min. 4.75V is in-spec)
[16:40] <tommd> Well, I'll probably turn off rotating - it isn't a feature I envision using. Still, its concerning that it might be triggering a power issue.
[16:40] <srobertson> rebooting brought back the +5V rail, but not the chip.
[16:41] <tommd> srobertson: Are you saying your USB Host controller is now dead?
[16:41] <tommd> Sounds like something got shorted - if so, that is really unfortunate.
[16:41] <tommd> mjr: thanks!
[16:41] <srobertson> shiznebit-G1: no device is perfect :) i don't know if there's a hardware flaw or not, i'm just gathering data.
[16:42] <srobertson> tommd: rebooting - as in, power to chip stays on.
[16:42] <srobertson> shutting down and booting again brings the controller back to life.
[16:42] <tommd> shiznebit-G1: Its often a bit scary to see the list of hardware defects software designers are forced to work around. Certain orders of assembly instructions that just don't work on particular CPUs, etc.
[16:43] <shiznebit-G1> wow
[16:43] <srobertson> i'm gonna go test again, and more carefully this time. nobody cancel a preorder yet :)
[16:43] <shiznebit-G1> so this one particular instanos
[16:43] <tommd> srobertson: Thanks - if you were in Portland I'd help.
[16:43] <shiznebit-G1> heh I would nt anybway
[16:44] <shiznebit-G1> im not particularly interested in rotation
[16:45] <shiznebit-G1> did the touchbook have to be certified by the FCC
[16:45] <shiznebit-G1> ,?
[16:47] <mjr> Good luck with that; won't cancel since haven't ordered but I will when the usb thing is clearer (as I mentioned before but to a partially different crowd, already filled my early hardware trouble quota for a while with the Freerunner, though mind you, it's still my phone ;]??)
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[16:47] <tommd> shiznebit-G1: I'm guessing no because the wireless devices are all third-party USB dongles - not a bad way to go.
[16:48] <tommd> mjr: Yeah, I remember seeing you say that - we'll try to clear the road for you ;-)
[16:48] <mjr> tommd, yeah, not bad at all, and you get the easy upgradability bonus
[16:48] <mjr> (otoh, if you're using usb for everything, it's even more important that it work ;]??)
[16:49] <mjr> nighty now
[16:49] <mjr> and please make me drool ;P
[17:01] <srobertson> AFAICT, the bus is not failing because of power issues. power does get shut off a few seconds after the bus goes down, but the bus goes down first.
[17:02] <srobertson> granted, this is using the time-honored data collection method of "stare at the phosphor, don't blink, don't blink, don't blink!"
[17:03] <tommd> srobertson: I usually trust that more than someone fiddling with the code - thanks again for running these tests.
[17:04] <srobertson> tommd: absolutely. i too want my gadget to work :)
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[18:26] <crazy2be> are there any benchmarks for touchbook battery life?
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[19:31] <tommd> crazy2be: Good question - I'm surprised we haven't seen any reviews yet.
[19:31] <crazy2be> as am i
[19:31] <crazy2be> i'm waiting for the reviews before i buy
[19:32] <crazy2be> because as of yet it looks really neat
[19:32] <crazy2be> but i don't know how it stacks up against the competition
[19:32] <crazy2be> the thing i care about the most is the battery life
[19:33] <crazy2be> second is keyboard size
[19:33] <crazy2be> third is durability
[19:33] <crazy2be> and after that is usability and all that
[19:33] <crazy2be> since it's linux, i can do whatever i want there :P
[19:33] <tommd> Yeah, who cares if its useful, so long as it will last the plane ride.
[19:33] <tommd> ;-) Yeah, I know what you mean.
[19:34] <tommd> I'm hoping to get GHC running on it so I can get xmonad going.
[19:35] <crazy2be> GHC?
[19:45] <tommd> crazy2be: Glasgow Haskell Compiler
[19:45] <tommd> I like the programming language Haskell - if the ARM port isn't in a good way by the time I get my TB, porting GHC will be one of my self assigned tasks.
[19:50] <crazy2be> lol
[19:51] <crazy2be> C++ ftw
[19:52] <crazy2be> or python
[19:53] <crazy2be> but i have never used haskell
[19:53] <crazy2be> still working on learning C++, been over a year and i am still a newbie
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[21:12] <crazy2be> bye then
[21:12] <crazy2be> tell me when you get a review
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[21:32] <cantor> How long is it taking for orders to be completed from the date ordered?
[21:32] <cantor> the site is not that explicit
[22:05] <tommd> cantor: Its not a constant value.
[22:05] <tommd> The site does say they hope to fill all preorders by end of October
[22:05] <tommd> Which is a backlog dating back to April or so.
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[23:47] <cantor> thanks tommd

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