#touchbook IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2009-09-09

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[13:17] <linkreincarnate> hi all
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[13:41] <Corsac> hey
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[14:09] * xbackslashx (n=someone@d51531148.static.telenet.be) has joined #touchbook
[14:09] <xbackslashx> hello fellow touchbook enthousiasts and the likes :p
[14:10] <xbackslashx> can someone tell me more about the package contents of the touchbook, I can't find it on the site
[14:11] <hyc> you mean the physical contents of the shipping box?
[14:12] <xbackslashx> indeed
[14:12] <hyc> touchbook, DC power supply, stylus, 3 magnets. 4 page instruction sheet.
[14:13] <xbackslashx> so then I won't have to buy the additional US power adapter listed under accessories
[14:13] <Corsac> and the two batteries
[14:13] <hyc> the batteries are already installed
[14:13] <Corsac> and for international shipments, maybe a universal adaptor
[14:13] <xbackslashx> great
[14:13] <Corsac> but nobody received that yet, afawk
[14:14] <xbackslashx> yeah, there was mention of possible kb replacements aswell
[14:15] <hyc> the power supply is universal (50/60hz, 100-240V) so yeah, you might need a plug adaptor but those are less than $1
[14:15] * linkreincarnate is now known as AFKlinkreincarna
[14:15] <xbackslashx> I have a uk to eu plug addaptor already in my possesion, will that do?
[14:17] <Corsac> no, it's a us one
[14:23] <xbackslashx> are there still units available for the september beta batch?
[14:26] <Corsac> no idea
[14:27] <Corsac> when did you preorder?
[14:27] <xbackslashx> not yet, i am about to
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[14:29] <Corsac> then don't expect it before october or november
[14:48] <xbackslashx> well then, I will have to work on my bug tracking skills by then :)
[14:49] <xbackslashx> just send a message to gregoire by mail concerning so I will have to see what he replies
[14:49] <xbackslashx> -concerning
[14:50] <xbackslashx> say, is this the first product release by Always Innovating?
[14:50] <Corsac> yep
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[14:53] <xbackslashx> what about open hardware,is it a rather new concept?
[15:13] <viridior> define "open hardware", it can have as many meanings as "open source"
[15:14] <viridior> not all of the hardare is "open", but the platform itself doesn't need to be jailbreaked and therefore is "open" for you to install on it's hardware
[15:14] <viridior> s/hardare/hardware
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[16:02] <xbackslashx> exit
[16:02] <xbackslashx> quit
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[16:06] <hyc1> robclark: have you guys looked at the OpenMAX code written by ARM? http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/openmax/index.html
[16:07] <robclark> hmm.. OpenMaxDL?
[16:07] <hyc1> yeah
[16:07] * hyc1 is now known as hyc
[16:07] <robclark> I guess if it is from ARM, it is just using NEON and not the DSP..
[16:07] <robclark> btw, did I mention, I did get the 2.6.31 kernel working with dspbridge, tiopenmax..
[16:07] <robclark> I had to update dspbridge..
[16:07] <hyc> right. no, that's cool....
[16:08] <robclark> there is a git tree for dspbridge even, but I don't think it has the fixes needed yet..
[16:08] <hyc> oh well. The touchbook distro is still on 2.6.29 so I may stay there for a while. I haven't checked yet to see if I can successfully rebuild the powervr driver
[16:08] <robclark> I'm still debugging some issues w/ v4l2 display driver in new kernel, so I've not had a chance to figure out what changes need to made avail in the public tree
[16:09] <robclark> tru.. but I guess the 2.6.31 kernel is closer to the 2.6.29 that you currently use than what the new dspbridge and tiopenmax were used with..
[16:10] <robclark> I think the problem is some mismatch between dspbridge kernel module and the userspace lib.
[16:10] <hyc> ah. then it would be a matter of picking out which patches can be dropped....
[16:10] <robclark> (and btw, if you hadn't noticed, now there seems to be two kernel modules.. dspbridge.ko and bridgedriver.ko)
[16:10] <hyc> yes, saw that.
[16:11] <robclark> ok
[16:11] <hyc> the touchbook has it in 2 modules already
[16:11] <robclark> ok, so I think your kernel is based on "the new stuff"..
[16:11] <hyc> that confused me when working with the old tarball, since it was just 1 module
[16:11] <robclark> so tonight I'll look into what changed between the dspbridge that I was originally using (which is I think what was released) and the slightly newer version..
[16:12] <robclark> I guess similar changes should make it work on the .29 kernel too.. but that is just a guess
[16:12] <hyc> unfortunately no matter what path we take, a fair chunk of new code needs to be written for what i want. i.e., Ti doesn't provide a H.264MP decoder for the DSP
[16:12] <hyc> so we're likely going to have to port the ffmpeg libraries to the DSP if we really want to use it.
[16:13] <robclark> hmm..
[16:13] <hyc> and then there's the fact that the powervr SGX is also supposed to provide some acceleration that needs to be explored ;)
[16:14] <robclark> well, the link and bridge codec support might be different.. I'm actually not sure what is avail and what is publically avail for the omx/bridge stuff.. I need to check
[16:14] <hyc> but my requests for the SGX SDK and the other codecs have gone unanswered thus far.
[16:14] <robclark> hmm.. is any info avail on programming the SGX?
[16:14] <robclark> unfortunately IMG likes to keep that a closely guarded secret :-(
[16:14] <hyc> I did a quick compare of the link and bridge codec selection, both seemed to be about the same.
[16:15] <hyc> I'm guessing they're built from the same DLL, just linked differently
[16:16] <robclark> I'm not entirely sure what parts are in common... but AFAIK, the DSP link stuff comes from the DaVinci line of chips. Which used to be a completely different line of TI chips..
[16:16] <robclark> (from OMAP)
[16:16] <hyc> ah
[16:17] <robclark> so I don't know how much to assume about them being similar.. they are both based on TI DSP technology, but other than that, I'm not really sure..
[16:19] <hyc> well at this point the range of codecs offered appear to have the same features
[16:19] * robclark is just digging around trying to find codec data sheets
[16:30] <robclark> hmm, maybe it is just H264-BP..
[16:30] <hyc> yes, in the public codec packages
[16:32] <robclark> well.. I guess for MP, you could write some DSP code ;-)
[16:32] <hyc> looks that way...
[16:32] <robclark> at least there should be documentation and compilers to avail for the c64x+ ;-)
[16:32] <hyc> true
[16:32] <hyc> well, it'll be far down the road for me
[16:33] <hyc> too much to do in the near term
[16:33] <robclark> y
[16:35] <hyc> by the way, I filled out the form here http://www.go-dsp.com/forms/TIDigitalMediaSWCM/index.htm to request the DM646x H.264 BP/MP/HP decoder
[16:36] <hyc> but haven't gotten any response. you know anything about these guys?
[16:36] <hyc> is that not usable on the C64x+ DSP?
[16:36] <robclark> hmm, no idea..
[16:37] <robclark> I would guess no.. but it depends on if DM646x has same hw... the decoding isn't completely sw based
[16:38] <robclark> let me see if I can find a data sheet on DM646x..
[16:39] * robclark doesn't know too much about the DM stuff or DaVinici stuff.. he works in wireless
[16:39] <hyc> ah ok
[16:42] <hyc> hm. http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spruep8/spruep8.pdf
[16:42] <hyc> says it's also a C64x+ DSP subsystem
[16:43] <robclark> ah.. yeah, the processor looks similar at least.. but there is also some hw around the dsp..
[16:46] <robclark> it doesn't look like it has the IVA2.2 subsystem that is in omap..
[16:47] <robclark> maybe the codec could work, but I guess it would at least need to be recompiled, and would not take advantage of some of the hw on omap..
[16:47] <robclark> so probably wouldn't do 720p or anything like that..
[16:47] <robclark> (but that is just my guess)
[16:47] <hyc> 480p would be good enough
[16:47] <hyc> the screen is only 600 pixels tall anyway, whaddaya want ;)
[16:47] <robclark> true, true
[16:48] <robclark> yeah, the extra 120 pixels would have been nice
[16:48] <hyc> yeah
[16:48] <robclark> but you can still play 720p and downscale it in hw (DSS) to whatever screen resolution
[16:48] <robclark> there aren't any phones that have 1280x720 screens ;-)
[16:48] <hyc> lol
[16:49] <hyc> yeah I was scaling some movies to play on my G1's 480x320 screen
[16:49] <hyc> 3:2 aspect ratio is already an oddball
[16:49] * robclark is looking forward to n900's 800x480 resolution ;-)
[16:50] <robclark> that is a step in the right direction ;-)
[16:50] <hyc> sounds nice for a phone
[16:50] <hyc> probably could have gone with a higher DPI for this screen, dunno.
[16:51] <hyc> but you're still talking 10:6
[16:51] <robclark> yeah.. and it probably helps that nokia buys a higher volume of parts, so I guess they get a little easier access to the cutting edge screen technology
[16:52] <hyc> yeah, probably
[16:53] <robclark> ok.. time to head home.. bbl
[16:53] <hyc> ciao
[16:53] * robclark (n=robclark@192.94.94.105) Quit ("be seeing you")
[16:55] <ratonk_> or not sleeping yet ?
[16:55] <ratonk_> oups
[17:09] <viridior> anybody taken apart their keyboard section yet?
[17:09] <hyc> yeah
[17:09] <hyc> not much to see
[17:09] <hyc> the actual keyboard is fastened by tape
[17:09] <viridior> seems something isn't fastened
[17:10] <hyc> so just press hard on it and it will stick
[17:10] <viridior> hmm... open with a screedriver head?
[17:10] <viridior> err.... screwdriver
[17:10] <hyc> there are 4 screws on the bottom, behind the rubber feet
[17:10] <viridior> ah
[17:11] <viridior> didn't want to peel them off, i ripped them off a keyboard once thinking there were screws there :P
[17:11] <hyc> heh heh. never know till you try, I guess.
[17:11] <hyc> but yeah, there's really nothing fancy here
[17:11] <viridior> one of my more brilliant moves while drunk and programming....
[17:12] <hyc> as the saying goes, there's nothing more dangerous than a software guy with a screwdriver
[17:17] <Pebby> hyc: does that work the other way around? Nothing more dangerous than a hardware guy with a text editor and a conf file? ;)
[17:17] <hyc> mmm probably :)
[17:17] <Pebby> viridior: Don't feel bad... I did that once to an old keyboard as well. I mean, come on - it made sense!
[17:17] <viridior> Pebby: exactly!
[17:20] <viridior> figured out the problem... the metal strips are barely glued together, one of them separate and was moving around
[17:20] <viridior> nothing some glue wont fix
[17:21] <hyc> inside the keyboard case?
[17:22] <viridior> yep, the metal bars in the front... one of them was loose... its just 2 stacks of 3 metal strips
[17:22] <hyc> right
[17:22] <hyc> I think they're just counterweights for the screen
[17:23] <viridior> might be, they should be a bit heavier ;)
[17:24] <hyc> yeah, that's what I thought too. but that would push them over 4lbs for the combo.
[17:24] <viridior> i might just take some of the crap in my wifes purse and throw it in there... that should be enough
[17:24] <hyc> the other alternative is they should have mounted the battery along that edge instead.
[17:24] <viridior> true
[17:24] <viridior> maybe they can mod it cheaply for later people
[17:24] <hyc> right
[17:24] <viridior> im not stuck @ 4 lbs
[17:25] <hyc> doesn't look like there are any clearance issues anyway, plenty of space.
[17:25] <viridior> thats true, noticed that... it makes a big difference compared to other devices, especially netbooks
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[17:26] <hyc> yeah. it's really a nice form factor
[17:26] <viridior> i actually like the keyboard
[17:26] <hyc> mmm. what position is your right shift key?
[17:27] <hyc> i find that the lip of the trackpad interferes with my thumb hitting the space bar
[17:27] <viridior> small and right about right arrow
[17:27] <viridior> s/about/above
[17:27] <hyc> yeah, I think the right shift and End key need to be swapped.
[17:28] <viridior> i was thinking of that earlier, end is sort of awkward
[17:28] <hyc> I'm always hitting the end key when I didn't want to...
[17:28] <hyc> fortunately it looks like the keytops can be pulled off and replaced easily enough, so I can swap them any time
[17:29] <hyc> just need to figure out how to map the keys at the tty level (obviously can do it in X)
[17:29] <viridior> you can actually pass it to the kernel when compiling
[17:29] <viridior> i have it written down someone, im developing for the openpandora also
[17:31] <viridior> hot glued everything back, plus the keyboard wire that was taped
[17:32] <viridior> i might need to find another keyboard battery... looks like you might have enough room to stack another on top of it
[17:37] <viridior> the only think i don't like besides it being a bit top heavy atm is the hinge area... wish it could be better, whatever that could be
[18:11] <hyc> yeah the hinge seems a bit weird
[18:11] <hyc> haven't tried to take it apart and see what's inside yet
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[20:20] <shiznebit_> has gregoire run for the borders ?
[20:20] <hyc> he's been responding to emails
[20:20] <shiznebit_> has he been in the channel since september ?
[20:20] <hyc> I think he's just heavily involved in testing 2009-09 right now
[20:21] <shiznebit_> that explains it
[20:27] <shiznebit_> hyc: what is the biggest fault you find with the current touchbook
[20:31] * bstag_ (n=bstag@71.91.171.252) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:32] <hyc> haven't thought about it really
[20:32] <hyc> I think all of the oddities of the machine have already been pointed out
[20:32] <hyc> there is a tendency for the screen to blank when USB devices are inserted / activated
[20:33] <hyc> I have some preference issues with the keyboard, the placement of right-shift and End
[20:33] <hyc> the physical balance of the machine, which has been stated many times
[20:34] <hyc> for a new revision I would definitely suggest that they redesign the layout of the battery in the keyboard unit
[20:35] <hyc> running the battery lengthwise along the front edge of the keyboard unit would go a long way toward balancing the machine without hurting their weight limit
[20:41] * linkreincarnate (n=chatzill@ip24-252-205-137.mc.at.cox.net) has joined #touchbook
[20:41] <linkreincarnate> hi all
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[22:19] <hyc> given that some folks have already received theirs this month, I'd say it's likely :P
[22:22] <hyc> that won't happen before October
[22:23] <hyc> they're going to be pushing a new release image every week this month. that's going to be keeping them busy.
[22:23] <hyc> but obviously they want to get as much polished as possible before the mass distribution begins
[22:24] <hyc> I have a couple more of my pieces of code in the 2009-09 distro ;)
[22:26] * Anges (n=agnes@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-173-3.adsl.proxad.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:30] <tommd> I haven't even been charged or contacted - I doubt I am getting on this month :-(
[22:31] <dpb> Doesn't say anything yet.
[22:32] <Anges> ne too??? (but I ordered 3 weeks ago!)
[22:32] <dpb> They said the shipment is at the end of the month.
[22:39] <Anges> As long as I get it before Christmas, I will be happy!
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[22:51] <AFKlinkreincarna> cant wait to get mine ...
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[23:21] <Corsac> how, 2009-09.a is out, I didn't see that
[23:28] <dpb> Blind. :P
[23:34] <Corsac> gnagnagna
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