#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-09-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:07] * killring (n=killring@adsl-99-155-223-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
[0:22] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #touchbook
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[5:22] <derken73> hello
[5:23] <hyc> ok, still no joy with the new DSP codecs
[5:24] <hyc> I figured out that the gstreamer-ti plugin requires root privs
[5:24] <hyc> and that the ti-dmai code needs to be patched to recognize the Touch Book (as opposed to Beagleboard or other OMAP 3530 platforms)
[5:25] <hyc> and I've rearranged the codec server memory map to push everything to the high end of 256MB instead of crowding into 128MB like it does by default
[5:25] <hyc> but still, nothing - no video decoding...
[5:27] <hyc> the dspbridge stuff that the TouchBook comes with basically works, but the provided codecs don't handle H.264 well (or at all, I haven't tried many samples to see what it works with)
[5:27] <hyc> the newest codecs from TI don't seem to work at all
[5:28] <hyc> and the new codecs with the new dsplink stuff also seems not to work. sheesh.
[5:33] * hyc_tb (n=hyc@ has joined #touchbook
[5:33] <hyc> http://software-dl.ti.com/dsps/dsps_public_sw/sdo_sb/targetcontent/dvsdk/DVSDK_3_00/latest/index_FDS.html
[5:48] <Corsac> hyc: it seems gregoire had good contacts with TI people
[5:50] * hyc_tb (n=hyc@ Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[5:52] <hyc> yes
[5:53] <hyc> I guess I should wait to see what they come up with, he says he has a completely refreshed build tree for the TB OS
[5:58] * dirk2 notices that TB is swiched to 600MHz by a U-Boot patch (http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/U-boot patch 2) and wonders if the voltage is adjusted, too: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Clocking
[5:59] <koen> dirk2: afaik it isn't
[6:00] <dirk2> koen: Then TB might use special OMAP3s, or they hope ...
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[6:35] <honk> nah, the specs were changed
[6:35] <honk> there was a post in the forum about it - the cpu is specced for higher clocks now :}
[6:46] <mturquette> hyc: drop by #linux-omap if you want
[6:46] <mturquette> i'll try to get some relevant people in that channel that might be able to help more with codec stuff
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[7:56] <jvs> news?
[8:02] <shiznebit> yeah, keep fucking waiting
[8:03] <fooq> oh, I actually trained that
[8:03] <jvs> very kind shiznebit
[8:04] <jvs> I'll keep fucking, when waiting
[8:05] <fooq> perhaps consider drinking tea, jvs
[8:06] <jvs> alright charles
[8:51] * killring (n=killring@adsl-99-155-223-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #touchbook
[9:39] * merp (n=merp@188.sub-75-216-70.myvzw.com) has joined #touchbook
[9:41] <merp> greetings. I had sent an email on August 28th (Friday), and I'm sure folks are swamped with everything, but maybe someone here can give me a general answer possibly? it is regarding the revisioning of the hardware in future batches.
[9:42] <Corsac> well, I don't know to who you send your mail, but assuming it's to Gr??goire, he's not around these days
[9:42] <Corsac> so we have no idea about hw revisioning
[9:42] <merp> I unfortunately hadn't heard of the touchbook prior to august 1st, but jumped on it once I found it. I was hoping to be an early tester, but obviously too far down in the queue. Now that many have it, and have provided the feedback, and it looks like October at the earliest, will that batch be a different revision of the hardware, or will it be the same?
[9:42] <Corsac> same
[9:43] <merp> i see. I had emailed contact@alwaysinnoving.com
[9:43] <Corsac> I wouldn't bet on a hw refresh these year
[9:43] <Corsac> first let the software stablize
[9:43] <Corsac> (like, have it more ready for christmas)
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[9:45] <dpb> yeah, making changes to the hardware is too time consuming, it won't happen anytime soon
[9:45] <merp> ic
[9:45] <merp> ok. ty.
[9:46] <fooq> exercising patience... a boring virtue
[9:46] <dpb> :)
[9:46] <DargusK> This may have been a FAQ that I'm not seeing, but how long is the waiting list for a touchbook? would it be a week, a month, 3 months if I ordered one today before I received it?
[9:46] <Corsac> kind-of wondering which one I'll see first: TB or n900
[9:47] <Corsac> DargusK: nobody knows
[9:47] <Corsac> but basically all pre-orders should be filled (shipped) by mid-october
[9:47] <Corsac> orders in between will settle down after that
[9:48] <DargusK> thanks, Corsac :)
[9:48] <DargusK> Trying to figure out how long I have to save for one :P
[9:51] * dirk2 (n=dirk@p5B0402AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("Konversation terminated!")
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[10:22] <merp> fooq, (back, sorry had to go afk briefly). This is not an issue of patience, it is about actually contributing. There isn't much point at this late date providing feedback on a hardware revision that is already clearly needing significant revisioning. I had hoped to be part of that feedback cycle, but at this point it would be unnecessarily redundant. If what you say is true, that there won't be any hardware revisioning, and the current versio
[10:22] <merp> n is so flawed, is there a way I can ask my order to be postponed until the next hardware revision, but be early in that queue so I can actually provide useful feedback on that version? thanks.
[10:23] <merp> any hardware revisioning for months.
[10:25] <merp> also, is there a phone number I can call since email not being responded to in a timely fashion? will this number: 6465497779 contact the company offices, or is it just an individual's phone number? (from whois on the domain). Or is there a better number to call? Thank you.
[10:25] <fooq> merp, you are referring to what Corsac and dpb said about the hw revisions?
[10:26] <fooq> what exactly do you mean when saying the hardware is flawed?
[10:26] <merp> I'm referring to the increasing reports from everyone that has received and written about them, from forums, blogs, etc.
[10:27] <koen> if it's on the internet, it must be true
[10:27] <fooq> well ...
[10:27] <fooq> :)
[10:28] <fooq> merp: as what was told about the magnets being too weak, there was a misunderstanding on their placement
[10:28] <merp> koen, fooq, so you're denying that any of the reviews have any merit about the hardware? did they just get "lemons" and they are an exception not the issue? What about the tipping? magnetism? keyboard? loose assembly? etc?
[10:28] <koen> I'm reserving judgement till *$(*@$(@*$@ customs releases mine
[10:28] <merp> yes, I saw someone comment they stood corrected on one magnet issue
[10:28] <fooq> denying? no i don't already own a tb
[10:28] <merp> but the magnet is the least important to me.
[10:29] <merp> fooq, I see
[10:29] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[10:29] <shiznebit> you can always make a better case and get ti from a welders shop for like $75
[10:30] <fooq> then there seems to be some issues with the tb flipping over, but i am sure you can fix that with a bit of creativity
[10:30] <merp> again, very hopeful about the overall design and innovation proposed, but what value will my getting it in october or later, provide as far as feedback to AI making any improvements by then?
[10:30] * jvs (n=jvs@ has joined #touchbook
[10:30] <shiznebit> it won't be too hard its only 4 pieces + 10 to 20 minutes of drilling
[10:30] <merp> ok. I was hoping for a little more info, not just the ongoing debate. One last time, anyone have a phone number please?
[10:30] <shiznebit> a phone number for ?
[10:30] <merp> AI
[10:31] <merp> sales/order department
[10:31] <shiznebit> nope
[10:31] <shiznebit> no number
[10:31] <merp> ok, will pester 6465497779
[10:32] <merp> that's not encouraging for a company not to have a phone number. interesting.
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[10:32] <koen> saves paying $$$$$$ for someone sitting next to the phone
[10:32] <fooq> merp: i don't really believe that there are guys sitting in front of phones 8 hours a day
[10:32] <killring> merp: I think you misunderstand how large an operation ai is
[10:34] <merp> I'm well aware it's a small operation. and I've run them myself before I retired in '03 in the silicon valley area. But I also know there are very economical and effective ways to still at least provide some level of service, including phone, when email is backlogged.
[10:34] <merp> if nothing else, services that forward voicemail, etc.
[10:34] <killring> again, you don't seem to understand the size of the operation
[10:34] <merp> anyhow, I hope things get ironed out,
[10:35] <killring> sure, the tech to answer the phone is easy
[10:35] <fooq> merp: including phones is hard once you have different timezones
[10:35] <merp> even if it is just one person
[10:35] <merp> fooq, there are services that can handle all of that easily
[10:35] <killring> the manpower to handle the calls is another thing entirely
[10:35] <merp> and cheaply
[10:35] <merp> I've worked for, and started up a number of startups, large and small myself, so I'm well aware of the challenges.
[10:36] <fooq> but, will your voicemail be processed _before_ your mails will be processed merp ?
[10:36] <fooq> in this imaginary setup
[10:36] <merp> that varies depending ont he system used
[10:36] <killring> merp: how many employees do you envision ai has?
[10:36] <merp> ok. this is not productive or benefiting anyone. have a pleasant day.
[10:36] <merp> at least 1
[10:36] * merp (n=merp@188.sub-75-216-70.myvzw.com) has left #touchbook
[10:36] <fooq> whew :/
[10:37] <killring> I hope that guy *doesn't* buy an early tb. talk about high-maintenance
[10:39] <fooq> he definitely seems to like a few ways of redundancy when contacting
[10:39] <shiznebit> i think most of the hardware the ai is using is good
[10:39] <shiznebit> the build quality might not be
[10:39] <shiznebit> but there are ways to work around that
[10:39] <killring> which makes sense once ai has a fully launched product and has some revenues to offset the expense
[10:40] <shiznebit> contacting by phone is a PITA, especially for a start-up
[10:41] <blunderer> by the way how many people work in ai?
[10:41] <killring> also many, many tiny companies don't even offer phone support anymore... not part of the business model
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[10:41] <shiznebit> not sure but probably less than 100
[10:41] <killring> lol... I'd be amazed if it's more than 5
[10:41] <fooq> i'd say most probably less than 100 :)
[10:42] <jvs> bonkers
[10:42] <killring> I'm sure there are a lot of people involved on the manufacturing side but those are all likely employees of the contract mfr
[10:42] <jvs> right
[10:42] <killring> likewise it sounds like much of the engineering was outsourced as well
[10:43] <blunderer> I can imagine
[10:43] <fooq> i heard Willy Wonka considers joining in
[10:43] <fooq> :)
[10:45] <jvs> fooq, I think people on this channel have stopped laughing in july
[10:46] <fooq> :/
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[10:48] <fooq> c'mon .. straight now.. who googlestalked willy wonka? hands up
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[11:02] * jkridner|work (n=a0321898@nat/ti/x-ptrwbwhdhiscdkzf) has joined #touchbook
[11:02] <- *jkridner|work* what is the root password?
[11:03] <- *jkridner|work* actually, that should be "how do I log in as root?"
[11:03] <- *jkridner|work* 'su' returns "no valid shadow password"
[11:03] <- *jkridner|work* ah, "sudo -s" works.
[11:09] <jkridner|work> just asked the bot how do I log in as root. :)
[11:09] <jkridner|work> figured out that 'sudo -s' works.
[11:22] * blunderer (n=tristan@LPuteaux-156-15-47-90.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) has left #touchbook
[11:38] <jkridner|work> anybody have problems getting pidgin to log into freenode?
[11:39] <jkridner|work> i can browse the web, but pidgin says "couldn't connect to host"
[11:47] <Meiz_n810> x-chat!
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[12:53] <honk> <killring> merp: how many employees do you envision ai has? <-- that's a good question though - how many DO they have? ;P
[12:54] <killring> yep... I was just guessing, but I seriously would expect it's <5
[12:55] <killring> however many it is, I just want a great product so whatever it takes to get that done
[12:56] <shiznebit> the hardware is most excellent
[12:56] <shiznebit> its the enclosure that is lacking
[12:57] <killring> it is soooo close to my current ideal netbook/tablet
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[13:22] <hyc> jkridner|work: sounds like you are not running the 2009.08b software
[13:22] <hyc> you can fix the problem with pidgin (as root) "prelink -u /lib/libresolv.so"
[13:23] <hyc> Gregoire has pointedly not answered the question re: #of employees, so I guess we won't know
[13:32] <viridior> back
[13:34] <killring> hyc: not really relevant, imo. all that matters is the product they can put out
[13:36] <hyc> killring: sure, I mostly agree. My own company still has fewer than 5 technical staff...
[13:36] <hyc> but support does take manpower...
[13:37] <killring> yup. I'd expect that things like support would get staffed up (whether internally or externally) once they have a larger customer base
[13:37] <killring> right now, they're focussed on getting the product out the door and selling it
[13:38] <shiznebit> i want my shit already
[13:38] <killring> lol
[13:39] <shiznebit> hyc: did you fix the pug with rtmpdump where it only dled 6mb ?
[13:39] <shiznebit> bug*
[13:39] <hyc> yes, I did
[13:39] <shiznebit> wow, so its basically ready
[13:39] <hyc> I changed half of the code from C++ back to C
[13:40] <shiznebit> so what was the problem ?
[13:40] <hyc> that eliminated half of the uncertainty, then I went hunting with gdb for the remainder
[13:40] <hyc> bad g++ compiler, or bad libstdc++ I haven't tracked it any further than that.
[13:40] <hyc> the stupid thing was trying to compare strings on the command in an incoming packet
[13:41] <hyc> and it decided that "onBWDone" was equal to "_onbwcheck", and triggering the bwcheck action over and over again
[13:41] <hyc> the RTMP server would get confused and drop the connection.
[13:42] <hyc> I couldn't get it to compile this comparison correctly, so I worked around it, ignoring the command if the packet length looked wrong.
[13:43] <shiznebit> not the best fix
[13:43] <shiznebit> but i guess thats the best for now
[13:44] <shiznebit> might it get problematic if there is corruption ?
[13:44] <hyc> sure, it sucks.
[13:44] <hyc> but corruption will be a whole nother story. right now it works fine
[13:45] <shiznebit> true good point
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[14:03] <viridior> shiznebit: know anyone with talent at interface design/graphics?
[14:04] <shiznebit> nope why ?
[14:08] <viridior> want someone to work on our e17 interface for our Gentoo build
[14:08] <viridior> make it nice and perdy
[14:09] <viridior> of which, i have no talent :/
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[14:16] <shiznebit> just copy ubuntu :P
[14:17] * viridior gags
[14:17] <viridior> i wanted elegant ;)
[14:32] <shiznebit> fine linux mint
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[14:34] <viridior> it uses the kde env if i remember right, im trying to use e17... not the same
[14:35] <shiznebit> cant copy the concept ?
[14:35] <shiznebit> cyalater g2g
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[16:43] <hyc> so the good news is that my rebuild of the TI DSPlink stuff works
[16:44] <hyc> bad news is you have to dedicate 20-30MB of RAM to it
[16:44] <hyc> i guess that's not so bad
[16:44] <hyc> but the dspbridge stuff seems more flexible in this respect
[17:16] <jkridner|work> hyc: there is no /lib/libresolv.so
[17:16] <jkridner|work> i have 2009-08.b
[17:18] <jkridner|work> copying /lib/libresolv.so.2 to /lib/resolv.so and doing the prelink results in "/lib/libresolv.so does not have .gnu.prelink_undo section"
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[17:52] <hyc> jkridner|work - ok, then it was already done
[17:52] <hyc> that's odd; that fixed it for myself and for gregoire
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[18:58] <crazy2be> i want one!
[18:58] <crazy2be> has anyone actually received a touchbook yet?
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[19:06] <martinh> many people.
[19:25] <crazy2be> i'm concerned mainly about speed and duribility
[19:26] <shiznebit> well check out the video of the beagleboard running ubuntu and decide speed for yourself
[19:26] <crazy2be> "the" video?
[19:27] <shiznebit> videos
[19:27] <shiznebit> on youtube
[19:33] <crazy2be> would i be able to run the gimp on this?
[19:33] <crazy2be> is there a package manager installed by default?
[19:34] <crazy2be> What would openoffice.org's performance look like?
[19:53] <hyc> the packagemanager is ipkg (or opkg, I think they're the same)
[19:53] <hyc> abiword is already on the build. I haven't tried to use it yet though
[19:53] <hyc> not sure I want to do serious word processing on a 1024x600 screen
[19:54] <hyc> which is kinda funny, considering how many years we got by on 640x480
[20:01] <viridior> yay, ill be getting a TB by Saturday hopefully :)
[20:02] * hyc_tb (n=hyc@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[20:02] <viridior> ill make sure to post as much as i can
[20:02] <viridior> night
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[20:07] <hyc> so you got a delivery email?
[20:07] <hyc> viridior I guess that will help answer people's questions about the September deliveries
[20:13] * crazy2be1 (n=crazy2be@d205-206-133-182.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #touchbook
[20:13] <crazy2be1> btw
[20:14] <crazy2be1> i think that your like on http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/support/ should point to a mibbit chatroom, not the logs
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[23:02] <jkridner|tb> finally got on irc from my touchbook.
[23:03] <Corsac> wooh :)
[23:03] <jkridner|tb> very handy
[23:03] <Corsac> show-off!
[23:04] <jkridner|tb> don't think it would be great with the on-screen keyboard.
[23:04] <jkridner|tb> wonder how often i'd need to charge to just hang an extra monitor
[23:05] <jkridner|tb> to watch the irc activity.
[23:05] <jkridner|tb> guess i could leave it plugged in.
[23:05] <jkridner|tb> going to take a long trip on Friday to
[23:05] <jkridner|tb> see the battery life.
[23:06] <jkridner|tb> i was very happy to see that firefox plug-ins installed and worked exactly as expected.
[23:07] * Meiz_n810 can't wait to get his tb :o
[23:08] <Corsac> jkridner|tb: not too heavy on the screen size?
[23:08] <Corsac> (some people have expressed concerns about that)
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[23:15] <Corsac> well, next shipment is planned for mid-september, afaik
[23:19] <dpb> They don't have the time/resources to make changes to the hardware.
[23:20] <dpb> And the parts have probably been already ordered/produced, so it would be very costly.
[23:21] <Corsac> well, that's not a solution
[23:21] <Corsac> nobody wants to *add* weight
[23:22] <Corsac> solution is either to remove weight from the screen, or to reorganize internal stuff to reequilibrate
[23:22] <Corsac> but it might not be that easy
[23:22] <dpb> yeah, it's not.
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[23:23] <dpb> Which will take time
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[23:28] <dpb> Well the N900 has nearly the same hardware as the touchbook
[23:30] <dpb> Yeah, much crappier as it's a phone and can't really install your own OS on it... have to use that crappy maemo...
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[23:31] <dpb> So not true.
[23:31] <dpb> It started as Debian, but it's quite it's own OS nowadays.
[23:32] <dpb> The Maemo guys have made awful hacks everywhere to make break and make stuff barely work.
[23:33] <dpb> True, gnu/linux really needs a proper reordering..
[23:34] <dpb> Depends how you define ugly.
[23:34] <dpb> That's even more ugly imo :)
[23:35] <dpb> There's one linux distro that's less ugly than the others, but I don't really find it usable..
[23:36] <dpb> lol, don't joke
[23:36] <dpb> GoboLinux :P
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[23:36] <dpb> The point of it being that it's scrapped the whole default nix filesystem layout, and uses it's own.
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[23:37] <dpb> Installing every package to it's own directory
[23:37] <dpb> There's no /bin, /sbin, /usr etc in it.
[23:39] <dpb> I think so. Been a while since I tried it though.
[23:39] <dpb> More like OS X to me.
[23:39] <dpb> It might make symlinks of the libraries to a common dir, I can't remember.
[23:40] <dpb> probably
[23:41] <dpb> That's just a common unix thing
[23:41] <dpb> Not just GNU
[23:42] <dpb> And that's why I find linux/unix distros ugly, because the software is cluttered all over the place.
[23:42] <dpb> Sure, but doesn't make it any better. :)
[23:43] <dpb> an sd-card, yeah
[23:43] <dpb> the sd-card has the whole OS
[23:44] <dpb> easy to swap distros if you have multiple sd-cards
[23:45] <dpb> going back to maemo, yeah, it isn't the worst OS, imo any OpenEmbedded based is even worse...
[23:46] <dpb> Me too.
[23:48] <dpb> it's not 15hrs, atleast yet.
[23:48] <dpb> well, depends what you do probably
[23:49] <dpb> hyc was developing stuff, compiling stuff and testing stuff, pretty intensive use, and the thing lasted 8 hours
[23:49] <hyc> yeah, it's a solid 8 hours for sure
[23:49] <hyc> and I've just built a new kernel with power management / cpu frequency control
[23:49] <hyc> will see how that lasts...
[23:50] <hyc_tb> I'm pretty pleased with it on that front, at least
[23:51] <hyc_tb> yeah, full opengl 2.0 support
[23:51] <hyc_tb> it's even better than my laptop with ATI Radeon...
[23:52] <hyc_tb> the X server uses it, so yeah, any apps
[23:52] <hyc_tb> I dunno if it's optimal, but it works well
[23:53] <hyc_tb> yeah. too bad the DSP support is still kinda flaky. I'm still fighting with the kernel driver code
[23:53] <hyc_tb> I seem to have stumbled across at least 3 different potential sources of "the latest code"
[23:54] <hyc_tb> which is massively annoying. no idea if what I'm putting together will all play together
[23:54] <hyc_tb> DSP as in anything you can do with a fast math processor. sound, yes. video, yes.
[23:54] <hyc_tb> 9 years ago I wrote a speech recognizer and AC97 codec for a TI DSP
[23:55] <hyc_tb> I had completely forgotten all of that, but it's coming back to me now...
[23:55] <dpb> hyc_tb :: I seem to have stumbled across at least 3 different potential sources of "the latest code" <- yeah, that seems to be the curse of OMAP3 kernels...
[23:56] <hyc_tb> yeah, it's quite aggravating. they're all obviously derived from the same place within TI, you'd think they could publish one common repository and keep it up to date
[23:56] <dpb> MaceN8x0: not really, the kernel in linus' tree is the One. ;)
[23:56] <hyc_tb> yep
[23:57] <hyc_tb> diversity is ok among contributors, but it all needs to be unified and tracked
[23:57] <hyc_tb> this is just a mess
[23:58] <hyc_tb> perhaps
[23:58] <hyc_tb> the curse of forks
[23:58] <hyc_tb> or in this case, there was never a single authoritative source
[23:58] <hyc_tb> so you can't even say anyone forked anyone else
[23:58] <Corsac> hyc_tb: isn't linux-omap supposed to be merged in mainline?
[23:59] <hyc_tb> Corsac: maybe, but mainline still lags...
[23:59] <dpb> Corsac: and that doesn't mean linux-omap is the working one.. :)
[23:59] <hyc_tb> the problem is I'm integrating this tarball from TI now, and I don't know if it's older or newer

These logs were automatically created by TouchBook-LogBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.