#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-08-29

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[6:08] <jvs> mesa wants news :)
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[7:30] <bstag_> i really hate bitbake
[7:32] <azaghal_> How about bytebake?
[7:32] <azaghal_> Joking
[7:34] <bstag_> yeah
[7:34] <bstag_> bitbake freaks out way to easly
[7:35] * shiznebit (n=chatzill@ool-18b998ed.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #touchbook
[7:39] <azaghal_> I'm guessing no news on international orders?
[7:39] <azaghal_> I'm very close to buy the thing right now :)
[7:40] <bstag_> other then the news posted on the 24th?
[7:41] <azaghal_> Yep
[7:42] <azaghal_> Since I can't order directly to have it delivered to my place, but instead need to send it over to uncle in France, I need to figure out timing for when he comes around :)
[7:43] <azaghal_> Ah, in October all existing pre-orders.
[7:43] <bstag_> :>
[7:43] <azaghal_> I guess if I order now, I could get it to France by the end of November then.
[8:24] <martinh> man. everytime i use my eee i want my touchbook more. . .
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[8:33] <shiznebit> your E
[8:33] <shiznebit> well how many times a day do you use it ?
[8:42] <azaghal_> To be honest, I doubt the usability would be much different. But some other features of Touchbook are interesting :)
[8:54] <dpb> azaghal_: yeah, existing pre-orders in October, but who knows how many actual *orders* have come already after the pre-orders was closed. ;)
[8:54] <azaghal_> When was it closed?
[8:54] <dpb> Probably when they started the shipping? I don't know.
[8:55] <azaghal_> End of July.
[8:56] <azaghal_> Btw, is it possible to brick the Touch Book?
[8:56] <honk> nothing is impossible ;D
[8:57] <azaghal_> Well, curious if you can mess-up booting some way - irreversibly
[8:57] <honk> irreversibly? errh.. that'd be kinda hard on any system :}
[8:58] <dpb> honk: easy enough to need a new expensive toy to unbrick it.
[8:58] <honk> yeah :}
[8:59] <azaghal_> honk: Routers can be a good example.
[8:59] <honk> azaghal_: they usually just need a data cable :}
[8:59] <azaghal_> Usually :)
[9:00] <honk> and you cant just unplug the usb stick and format it from your main system
[9:00] <honk> ^^
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[9:36] <viridior> morning all
[9:43] <martinh> I don't use my eee all that much since my good laptop is my main workstation.
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[9:44] <martinh> i'm hoping the keyboard on the touchbook is better than on the eee.
[9:44] <martinh> that's the hardest part.
[9:48] <tromp> the rendered keyboard had a better layout
[9:48] <tromp> with a full right shift key
[9:49] <honk> I've bit used the right shift key in years :)
[9:49] <honk> s/bit/not/
[9:49] <honk> o.O
[9:57] <martinh> I use it.
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[11:13] <Anges> martinh, tromp: I???d love to see an ergonomic keyboard, with align keys (instead of staggered!)
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[12:45] <tshirtman> martinh: my eee (701) is my main workstation :) (currently plugged to a 19" and usb keyboard)
[12:48] <martinh> doesnt' that kind of ruin the purpose of a netbook?
[12:50] <Anges> I find my 701 kind of small for a workstation??? (even with a screen and a usb keyboard)
[12:50] <Anges> tshirtman: what OS do you have on your 701?
[12:53] <tshirtman> Anges: ubuntu, with heavy modifications
[12:53] <honk> martinh: it saves energy if you dont need more processing power than it has to offer ;P
[12:53] <tshirtman> martinh: well I unplug it when I go out of my room
[12:54] <tshirtman> honk: when I wach videos I would love a bit more processing power :(
[12:54] <Anges> netbooks are great to read email in bathroom or at breakfast table ;)
[12:54] <tshirtman> but it's the only thing
[12:54] <honk> tshirtman: yeah - buy something with an ION platform :}
[12:55] <tshirtman> Anges: and great to code in trains and subway
[12:55] <tshirtman> honk: sometimes in the future ^^
[12:55] <Anges> tshirtman: I???m a stay-at-home mom, now, so no trains for me anymore???
[12:56] <tshirtman> but I will have a good old workstation with more than enough power in little time
[12:56] <tshirtman> Anges: ok, so we don't have the same use of these things ;)
[12:57] <Anges> tshirtman: not really, no??? although I run xampp on my eeepc with a CMS!
[12:58] <Anges> I work 2 hours/month to update a website, and that can be done with an eeepc when I???m on vacation in an hotel room!
[12:58] <tshirtman> ^^
[12:58] <tshirtman> that's a pretty cool use too :)
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[12:59] <Anges> I hope I can have as much fun with the touchbook than I???ve had with my eeepc
[12:59] <tshirtman> :)
[12:59] <tshirtman> I'm still resisting the urge to buy one
[13:00] <Anges> although I don???t think I???ll spent so much time tuning other distros???
[13:00] <tshirtman> here in france it will takes month to get it's way
[13:00] <Anges> I was resisting too, and I failed a week ago!
[13:00] <Pebby> tshirtman: Me too. I have an eee 701 too, but the touchbook much better suits my needs (battery life). I'm waiting a little bit since I don't really need it right this minute
[13:00] <tshirtman> its*
[13:00] <Anges> on peut parler fran??ais alors??? j???habite dans le Centre???
[13:00] <honk> it'll take months wherever you are ;P
[13:00] <tshirtman> yeah
[13:01] <Pebby> Anges: I spent more time playing with gentoo on my eee than any other machine/distro
[13:01] <tshirtman> Pebby: yeah battery life is a dream on the TouchBook
[13:01] <tshirtman> but lattest eeepc are wonderfull to battery-wise
[13:01] <tshirtman> z*?
[13:01] <Pebby> tshirtman: Has anyone done any real-world stress tests with battery?
[13:01] <Pebby> tshirtman: Hmm, how do they sleep, though? My eee dies in 24 hours when slept
[13:02] <Anges> Pebby: My main computer stays with ubuntu, so everything is always ready with it, while my eeepc spent some time in easy mode, then xubuntu, then a long time with a tuned xandros (many tutos from eeeuser), and now arch
[13:02] <Pebby> I have an n810 too, which never needs to sleep because it runs for weeks on a charge when left on
[13:02] <Pebby> I'm looking forward to having instant on and always on in a laptop more than just 'good battery life' like an eee, honestly
[13:02] <Anges> apparently, Samsung NC10 has a great battery life. The ND10 (same, without windows) should be even better!
[13:03] <tshirtman> a friend of mind reports on his 1000HE leave it alone and it will sleep for a day not losing 10%
[13:04] <tshirtman> Anges: my eeepc went throu a few distros before settling to a ubuntu-netbook-remix which doesn't look anymore like ubuntu ^^
[13:05] <tshirtman> I removed a lot of software, and gnome, and currently use wmii
[13:05] <Anges> tshirtman: it???s always fun to try distros, and then to tweek them. Specially when you don???t need make lots of things work (DVD-burners and so on)
[13:05] <Anges> I sticked with IceWM like I had on easy mode
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[13:06] <Pebby> tshirtman: Oh, wow. They've obviously improved sleep time. That's what I get for early adoption.
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[13:07] <Anges> sorry about that???
[13:07] <Pebby> The original is still a really nice machine, just.. obviously the 'first attempt' ;)
[13:07] <Anges> Pebby: the original of what?
[13:07] <Pebby> The original eee 701
[13:07] <Anges> ok
[13:07] <tshirtman> Pebby: more details, my friends charged his 1000HE and ran the original windows on it a bit of time, then reboot it to install ubuntu, then went to sleep, a few hours letter came back and it was 65%, then a few more hours and it was 55%... I call that good sleeping and good battery life (everytime sleeping not hybernating, so that's instant on)
[13:08] <Anges> yes, a first attempt, but I don???t regret buying it as soon as it was available in Franc
[13:08] <Pebby> tshirtman: Yeah, that's much better. Though, trust me, when you get used to cell phones and the nokia tablets, there's a difference between 'instant on' and 'on from sleep'
[13:08] <Anges> e. It saved my sanity when my computer???s motherboard fried and it was useless for a month ;)
[13:08] <tshirtman> Pebby: yeah early adoption too, but it was already a cool device
[13:09] <Pebby> Anges: Oh, yes, definitely. It's a wonderful device and I still use it. I wouldn't have started using Gentoo were it not for having a cheap little machine to use for experiments
[13:09] <Anges> it???s a shame that the 7'' screen can???t deal with 1024x600???
[13:09] <tshirtman> yes
[13:10] <Anges> other than that, I didn???t want to change it until I started to lurk at the touchbook
[13:10] <tshirtman> I reduced every fonts at first, but it's a bit ugly
[13:11] <Anges> I???m not sure "lurk" is the word I need in that sentence???
[13:11] <tshirtman> ^^
[13:11] <tshirtman> I find it pretty apropriate
[13:11] <Pebby> I think you mean 'started to eye the touchbook'
[13:12] <Anges> according to online dictionnary, I drool (never seen that verb before)
[13:12] <tshirtman> Anges: from some lines ago: I live in normandy and going to ile de france tomorrow, we could speak french but il would be a bit unfair ^^
[13:12] <Anges> at least Gr??goir would understand ;)
[13:13] <tshirtman> yes ^^
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[13:14] <Anges> If you look at blogeee.net sometimes, people wonder if Gr??goire is really that bad in English, just doesn???t bother, or keeps his accent on purpose!
[13:14] <Pebby> Ahh, I'd be grateful if you spoke French. Years and years of education, but no one spoke French around me. I mostly forgot it all =P
[13:15] <Anges> I???m not sure irc-french would be that easy to understand
[13:15] <tshirtman> Pebby: bonjour :)
[13:15] <Pebby> Haha, I imagine you use just as much shorthand in French as English
[13:15] <tshirtman> oui
[13:16] <tshirtman> peut ??tre pas autant, mais pas mal quand m??me :P
[13:16] <tshirtman> maybe not as much, but still more than a few*
[13:16] <Anges> Pebby: I???m sure it would come back pretty easily. I used to be fluent in German but forgot everything.??I was looking at a German-forum yesterday, and still had a pretty good idea what they were talking about???
[13:17] <Anges> well, we use RTFM and STFW like english-speaking people!
[13:17] <Pebby> Anges: Ahh, I think I'm too far gone for that, unfortunately. I can understand the grammar pretty well, but the vocabulary has fled my mind. If I took a class or two, I bet I could get up to speed pretty quickly, though.
[13:18] <tshirtman> Pebby: french grammar is a bitch
[13:18] <tshirtman> ^^
[13:18] <Anges> german is the easiest: the rules are always the same, and you always know how to pronounce a word
[13:19] <tshirtman> its vocabulary that bytes here
[13:19] <tshirtman> and conjugaisons
[13:19] <Anges> english is a trick: it all seems so simple, but when you look closer, you realize that there is no rule!
[13:19] <Pebby> tshirtman: No way. English grammar is a bitch. Learning French and Spanish made our language look like what it is - constantly changing and with its roots in tons of places
[13:19] <tshirtman> (I don't know the english for that)
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[13:20] <Pebby> conjugations, close enough!
[13:20] <Pebby> French conjugation is easy... there are only a few odd ones compared to our gigantic handful of crazy verbs
[13:20] <tshirtman> Pebby: maybe I did'nt look close enouth but I did not see to much bizarre sentence constructions, all seems ok
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[13:21] <Anges> plus, English has its own way with (tenses?). Stuff like ??I???ve been doing that for?????, that doesn???t exist in other languages
[13:21] <tshirtman> Pebby: each of our verbs has a lot of different conjugations (thanks) your's are way simplier
[13:22] <tshirtman> Anges: j'ai fait cela pendant... c'est construit pareil non?
[13:22] <tshirtman> hum
[13:22] <Anges> I???ve heard that we should go with esperanto :p
[13:22] <Pebby> tshirtman: I guess I don't know enough to agree or disagree, but I found French much simpler once you got the hang of the rules!
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[13:23] <Anges> j???ai fait ??a pendant??? -> I???ve done that for??? and bam! mistranslation!
[13:24] <tshirtman> Pebby: well do you know about verbs groups (1st group, 2nd groud and 3rd group)?
[13:24] <tshirtman> Anges: yes translation is never easy with non formal languages anyway
[13:25] <Pebby> tshirtman: Hmm... I don't think so, or I know what you're talking about but by a different name
[13:25] <Anges> the only way to get how English is working is "immersion". I did that in??? ???96 with 3 seasons of Friends that I watched on UK tapes, with no subtitles???
[13:25] <tshirtman> Pebby: 1st and 2nd group are somewhat regular, (1st = *er verbs, with a few exceptions)
[13:26] <Pebby> tshirtman: Oh, yes, in that case! I guess we never called them by groups - just regular and irregular
[13:26] <Anges> Add 20+ books read in English, and you finally know how to construct a sentence ;)
[13:26] <Pebby> And there were groups like 'er' and 'ir' etc.
[13:26] <tshirtman> I know oter people that learned with "friends"
[13:26] <tshirtman> Pebby: yes it's that
[13:26] <tshirtman> (hu)
[13:27] <Anges> funny you don???t see them the way we do (the verbs)
[13:28] <tshirtman> Pebby: well and for exemples some verbs in ir are from the second (regular) and other are from the third, and well are completely f*cked up most of the time
[13:28] <Anges> my daughters (they are 5.5 and 4) still don???t get irregular verbs. They still say "je venirai" instead of "j???irai"
[13:29] <tshirtman> Anges: I think they don't call anything "preterit"
[13:29] <Anges> :D
[13:29] <tshirtman> language education is a weird thing ^^
[13:30] <Pebby> tshirtman: Oh, I still remember a lot of the totally fscked up ones like 'etre' =P
[13:30] <tshirtman> the best way is, as you said immersion
[13:30] <Anges> it???s amazing to see a 3 years old able to apply difficult grammar rules (and failing with the irregular stuff)
[13:31] <tshirtman> Pebby: well, and it's just basically the most used verbs of the language, ain't it? ;)
[13:31] <Pebby> It is strange, but I like learning it... the difficulty is finding people to learn with. Where I live, there are many Spanish speakers but few French speakers
[13:31] <Anges> you need to move to Qu??bec ;)
[13:31] <Pebby> tshirtman: And to be fair, the english conjugation of 'to be' is pretty silly too!
[13:31] <tshirtman> I know a few french that went to california
[13:31] <Pebby> Anges: Haha, trust me, I have often thought about it. My industry is strong there, so I could easily find a job.
[13:32] <Anges> Or you could come to France!
[13:32] <Pebby> tshirtman: I finally met a French friend through my ex, and he spoke in French to me whenever we met. I was so happy!
[13:32] <tshirtman> Pebby: "be" silly? oO "am" "are" welll
[13:32] <tshirtman> 'is' too
[13:32] <tshirtman> ^^'
[13:33] <Pebby> Well, everything relative. It's silly compared to, say, 'to run'
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[13:33] <tshirtman> Pebby: most of your verbs are as simple as "to run" that's what i call simple
[13:34] <tshirtman> I'm not aware of any french verbs that has only one form for a whole tense
[13:34] <Pebby> tshirtman: I guess I take it all for granted since I grew up with it!
[13:35] <Anges> like everybody???
[13:35] <tshirtman> Pebby: obviously :) but french's awkwardness (pheeewww) should disturb you
[13:35] <Anges> Russian seems pretty difficult too: some words have different meaning depending on where you put the tonic accent
[13:36] <Pebby> tshirtman: True, but there are often reliable rules about it (like with the 'er' verbs). I hear enough people speaking bad english even from our own language, that I know how many weird, obscure rules we have. Plus, my mother was an english teacher =P
[13:36] <tshirtman> my brother speak chinese, everythin is tonal, oO
[13:36] <Pebby> Anges: Oh, don't even get me started on languages that my tongue can't even speak! Hindi has three different 'd' sounds
[13:36] <Anges> the most disturbant thing is to read english with mistakse
[13:37] <tshirtman> Pebby: yes I see a lot of people using one word for another that pronunce the same, it's awfull
[13:37] <tshirtman> -k
[13:37] <Anges> Pebby: it???s just that my grandmother would love to see me learn russian
[13:37] <tshirtman> -l*
[13:37] <Anges> now and know???
[13:37] <Pebby> Anges: Haha... our native people can't even speak our language!
[13:37] <tshirtman> for exemple
[13:38] <tshirtman> Pebby: a lot of french neither
[13:38] <tshirtman> oups unfinished sentence above ^^
[13:38] <Pebby> We have words that evolve in and out too... 'addictive,' which I would consider the correct word, has, in the past few years, fallen out of favor. Now I hear tons of people saying 'addicting,' which is correct, but it grinds my ears the way reading books from 400 years ago makes your brain hurt ;)
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[13:39] <tshirtman> Pebby: I would use addictive too ^^'
[13:39] <Pebby> We also have some new 'words' that are just outright not words, but they use enough prefixes or suffixes that belong in other words, that enough people think they sound 'right'
[13:39] <Pebby> 'irregardless,' for example, is not a word.. but I hear it once a week!
[13:40] <tshirtman> but it seems to me that using addicting is making the languange more regular
[13:40] <Pebby> Besides not making sense, haha
[13:40] <Anges> we have an issue in France: someone took the ??just do it?? and translated it in ?? juste fais-le ?? for fun, and now, people say that a lot, when it doesn???t mean anything. Like something is ?? juste sympa ????!
[13:40] <tshirtman> >_<
[13:40] <Pebby> tshirtman: Yeah, it doesn't bother me much, but it's just interesting how quickly the language can change. 'addicting' is a lot like many other adjectives, so it makes sense
[13:41] <Pebby> Anges: haha, yeah, we have that too. We have an expression, "I couldn't care less," but people mangle it and say "I could care less."
[13:41] <tshirtman> Pebby: yes we have that sort of evolutions here too, it's just disturbing because you did not learnt it that way
[13:41] <tshirtman> (did+learnt? I never know this case)
[13:41] <Pebby> tshirtman: Definitely!
[13:41] <Pebby> did not learn (no 't')
[13:42] <tshirtman> ok
[13:42] <Pebby> learnt is not a word too... if you were using the past tense, you would say "You learned it that way," for example
[13:42] <Anges> oh, we have ?? tous les (???) possibles et inimaginables????. That should be everything that is possible and that you can think of, not everything that it possible and you CAN???T think of???
[13:43] <tshirtman> Pebby: oh I was wondering about that "I could care less" just yesterday
[13:43] <tshirtman> Pebby: yes it was a wrong past tense
[13:43] <tshirtman> thanks :)
[13:44] <Pebby> tshirtman: The way you want to say it is 'couldn't,' since you are implying that you already care as little as humanly possible, rather than 'could' which means you DO care some amount. Weird, I know.
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[13:44] <Pebby> Anges: Haha, I see all languages may have this issue ;)
[13:45] <tshirtman> Pebby: yes I totaly agree, but I was wondering if it has another (weird) meaning or if it was a mistake
[13:45] <Pebby> Alright, it's time for me to get going. Thanks for the discussion, you two. The internet never fails to amaze me ;)
[13:45] <Anges> another funny thing: someone saw fish in a store, with the mention ????peut-??tre congel??????. Question is: is it ??maybe frozen??, or ??can be frozen???
[13:45] <tshirtman> so the form without "n't" id a mistake
[13:45] <Pebby> tshirtman: Yeah, exactly
[13:45] <tshirtman> Pebby: you'r welcome :)
[13:46] <Anges> have fun, then!
[13:46] <Anges> who thought we could have that kind of talk on #touchbook?
[13:46] <tshirtman> it was a pleasur for me too
[13:46] <tshirtman> ^^
[13:46] <Pebby> Anges: No kidding, but, hey... similar interests drew us here. I'm still amazed I can talk to someone around the world like this, haha!
[13:47] <Anges> yes, it???s still amazing
[13:47] <Anges> time to go for me too, see you around sometimes???
[13:47] <tshirtman> yes internet is for real guys ^^
[13:47] <tshirtman> see you ;)
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[14:18] <azaghal> Somebody kick the rest of mes...
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[15:35] <viridior> hey
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[18:32] <viridior> <3
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[21:05] <Hugh> well, anything new?
[21:08] <hyc_tb> not really
[21:08] <hyc_tb> Gregoire is apparently on the road, so he's been offline
[21:08] <hyc_tb> clearly he also needs a 3G USB modem ;)
[21:17] <Hugh> hmmm... where is he headed to, did he say?
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[22:03] <hyc_tb> nope, didn't mention
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