#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-08-27

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:04] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw, did you consider a trackpoint as an input device?
[0:04] <gregoiregentil> I like trackpoint
[0:05] <gregoiregentil> just difficult to find keyboard like this
[0:05] <gregoiregentil> and also space below keyboard is quite constrained
[0:05] <Corsac> trackpoints take a lot of room below?
[0:06] <gregoiregentil> I don't know but we have zero space below the keyboard
[0:08] <Corsac> but that would free the room used by the touchpad too :)
[0:10] <Corsac> though indeed it might be difficult to buy keyboards with trackpoint in bulk
[0:10] <Corsac> (I have to admit I have no idea how those things work :) )
[0:10] <Corsac> building from scratch a device like the touchbook definitely looks like magic to me :)
[0:12] <gregoiregentil> VICTORY! dsp bridge works with aufs now
[0:12] <Corsac> woot!
[0:12] <Corsac> black magic involved?
[0:13] <gregoiregentil> there were some #define in the TI source code left with /lib/dsp (the directory that we moved to /tmp/dsp)
[0:13] <Corsac> ho.
[0:13] * Corsac ponders about $(prefix) :)
[0:14] <gregoiregentil> So Corsac, what's the status of qemu?
[0:14] <gregoiregentil> I'm interested about having AI OS running on qemu
[0:14] <Corsac> waiting for answer from the googlegroup :/
[0:14] <gregoiregentil> sure. Have you tried the debian stuff?
[0:15] <Corsac> I'm still stuck at the kernel panic
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> even with the debian kernel for qemu?
[0:15] <Corsac> I didn't manage to use a different kernel
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> the one I gave you the link
[0:15] <Corsac> (I know aurelien jarno)
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> I would try this first if you have a minute. Try to do what the guy is doing with Debian
[0:15] <Corsac> I tried :)
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> once it's working, replace the Debian rootfs by the AI rootfs
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> and you still get a kernel panic?
[0:16] <Corsac> but the thing is, qemu-omap3 wants a -sd and -mtdblock
[0:16] <gregoiregentil> We made it work with Tim a couple of months ago
[0:16] <gregoiregentil> I don't think that you need qemu-omap3
[0:16] <Corsac> and ignore completely my -kernel
[0:16] <Corsac> hmhm
[0:16] <gregoiregentil> there is no specific omap3 feature that you really want to emulate on a PC
[0:16] <Corsac> yeah but will the rootfs work with a non omap3 qemu?
[0:17] <Corsac> or only the kernel matters?
[0:17] <gregoiregentil> I think so
[0:17] <gregoiregentil> I would definitely try
[0:17] <Corsac> hmhm
[0:17] <Corsac> ok so I'm gonna retry with a debian kernel
[0:18] <Corsac> but I kind-of don't know how to switch from rootfs.tar.bz2 to a disk image
[0:18] <gregoiregentil> just untar to a folder
[0:19] <gregoiregentil> how does it do on debian?
[0:19] * killring (n=killring@adsl-99-33-112-215.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
[0:20] <Corsac> can I pass -hda on a folder?
[0:20] <Corsac> I didn't know that
[0:21] <gregoiregentil> No
[0:21] <gregoiregentil> do you have the link of the page I gave you?
[0:21] <Corsac> http://www.aurel32.net/info/debian_arm_qemu.php ?
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> you need to create an img
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> it's a like vmware disk: a raw disk on a file
[0:23] <Corsac> than loop-mounting it?
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> you have a qemu utility to create such disk if I remember well
[0:24] <gregoiregentil> we can give a call to Fabrice ;-)
[0:24] <gregoiregentil> more seriously,
[0:25] <gregoiregentil> qemu-img create -f qcow disk.img 120G
[0:25] <gregoiregentil> on http://lumumba.uhasselt.be/takis/howto/qemu.html
[0:26] <gregoiregentil> then, yes, I would loop mount and copy the files
[0:26] <Corsac> yeah, I did a raw image just to be sure
[0:26] <Corsac> than losetup + mkfs.ext3 + mount -o loop
[0:26] <Corsac> and i'm currently tar xf the rootfs.tar.bz2 on it
[0:26] * Meiz_n810 can't wait to get his TB and start kicking ubuntu on it :P
[0:27] * Corsac same with debian
[0:27] <gregoiregentil> mount -o loop /tmp/mounted_here && mkfs.ext3 /tmp/mounted_here && tar -xjpvf rootfs.tar.bz2 -C /tmp/mounted_here or something like that
[0:27] <Corsac> though I'll still do a dual boot because I definitely want to hack ton the touchbook os
[0:27] <gregoiregentil> hyc: please try the wiki page for DSP and let me know if it works for you
[0:28] <hyc> sure, will take a look
[0:28] <gregoiregentil> hyc: I'm trying midori and I get the same error as I got for Fennec, which was a prelink error around DNS
[0:28] <gregoiregentil> I think that you told me that you tried midori latest? I'm tyring 0.1.8
[0:28] <gregoiregentil> have you tried? Have you any recommendation what to exclude for prelink?
[0:29] <hyc> I have 0.1.6
[0:29] <gregoiregentil> pidgin is working great now, after your prelink exclude recommendation. Anything similar for midori?
[0:29] <Corsac> 0.1.9 is out, but if in both cases it's dns related it might not change anything
[0:29] <gregoiregentil> On the goodies html, it's 0.1.9 and on the download page, it's 0.1.8....
[0:29] <Meiz_n810> hmm is it possible to make a petitboot-based bootmemu for TB? ;) http://ozlabs.org/~jk/projects/petitboot/
[0:30] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: archive layout changed recently, might be related
[0:30] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: http://archive.xfce.org/src/apps/midori/0.1/
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> meiz_n810: I would like to ;-) Seriously, I would like to enhance u-boot
[0:31] <gregoiregentil> so that the user has optionally a kind of menu
[0:31] <hyc> after I excluded libresolv, midori got further, but still got a segfault. it looked like libc was the problem, and I figured unlinking that would basically affect everything, so I stopped there.
[0:31] <gregoiregentil> , especially for resetting his device (before the kernel kicks in)
[0:31] <hyc> and just unlinked midori itself
[0:31] <gregoiregentil> and unliked midori itself, does the app work after?
[0:32] <hyc> yeah it's fine with prelinking turned off
[0:33] <Corsac> prelinking works fine here on midori but debian is not exactly related :)
[0:33] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw, does OE use ulibc or (e)glibc?
[0:33] <gregoiregentil> glibc
[0:34] <hyc> yeah, these are definitely ARM-specific bugs in the prelinker, it's probably mis-handling some of the relocation types
[0:34] <gregoiregentil> I think that the next step is to do two cards with and without prelinking and sees the speed difference
[0:34] <gregoiregentil> to figure out if prelink really worths all those hassles
[0:35] <hyc> hmm. use bootchart or something like that?
[0:35] <gregoiregentil> yes
[0:38] * adricnet (n=adric@c-98-192-79-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit ("*bampf*")
[0:43] <hyc> ping test still works, what's in that new libomxil-ti package?
[0:45] <hyc> totem worked to play air.avi. I think the audio was a bit out of sync with the video
[0:45] <hyc> hm, totem segfaulted at the end of the video
[0:45] <hyc> also had two messages from omx when totem started
[0:47] <Corsac> arf
[0:47] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: I just noticed that your rootfs was i386 :/
[0:47] <hyc_tb> OMX-Cannot open OpenMAX registry file /Documents/.local/share/libomxil-bellagio/registry
[0:47] <hyc_tb> OMX-A Component loader constructor fails. Exiting
[0:50] <gregoiregentil> hyc: you need to register
[0:50] <gregoiregentil> /usr/bin/libomxil-.....-register
[0:51] <gregoiregentil> /usr/bin/omxregister-bellagio
[0:53] <hyc_tb> ok. now it's all confused, gstreamer says OpenMAX component in wrong state. may need to reboot
[0:53] <hyc_tb> will tryjust unloadinmgthe bridge first
[0:53] <hyc_tb> hmm, no error now, but no video.
[0:54] <hyc_tb> rebooting...
[0:54] * hyc_tb (n=hyc_tb@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[0:54] <Corsac> hmhm, no, it's not
[0:54] <Corsac> pfff
[1:03] * hyc_tb (n=hyc_tb@ has joined #touchbook
[1:04] <hyc_tb> ok. air.avi played fine after reboot. still looks like a bit out of sync on audio
[1:07] <gregoiregentil> OK. at least some progress
[1:13] * bstag_ (n=bstag@ Quit ("Leaving")
[1:28] <hyc> the videos from hulu.com are H264 and don't work. but transcoding with ffmpeg using -vcodec mpeg4 seems ok.
[1:28] <hyc> 720x400 video, using totem, fullscreen view
[1:29] <hyc> I haven't tried the dsplink stuff yet
[1:30] <gregoiregentil> that's not bad
[1:31] <gregoiregentil> I'm not sure that dsplink is working. I haven't tried it too. I remember that I left it unfinished a few weeks ago
[1:31] <hyc> ok, will leave it alone for now
[1:36] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: I still can't boot, it mount correctly the root filesystem, but then panics :/
[1:36] <gregoiregentil> and the debian image works?
[1:37] <honk> "but transcoding with ffmpeg using -vcodec mpeg4 seems ok." <-- you actually managed to download videos from hulu? O.o
[1:40] <hyc> yes. I've been privately maintaining a get_hulu script ever since Adobe sent a takedown notice to sourceforge for rtmpdump
[1:40] <honk> tsktsk :]
[1:41] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: the installer does work fine
[1:41] <gregoiregentil> the windows installer you mean?
[1:41] <hyc> honk: well, given the crappy performance of Adobe flash, it's the only practical thing to do...
[1:42] <hyc> and it was a great stress test for the wifi driver
[1:42] <honk> I can watch hulu on my desktop if I lower the resolution to 960x540 ^_^
[1:42] <honk> so.. yeah, it is :/
[1:42] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: no, the debian installer :)
[1:43] <hyc> but mplayer was being too slow, so I never got that far
[1:43] <honk> you wouldnt wanna ship a script that's been taken down once already anyway, would you?
[1:52] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: ok, I managed to boot using debian installer kernel and initrd, then dropped to a shell and mounted the rootfs
[1:52] <Corsac> I then can't execute bin/busybox
[1:52] <Corsac> it says ???Illegal instruction???
[1:53] <Corsac> I'm using -M versatilepb
[1:53] <gregoiregentil> oops...
[1:53] <dpb> what flash player does the device have? swfdec?
[1:53] <Corsac> so it might have omap3 features even there :/
[1:53] <gregoiregentil> dpb: yes, swf is the official plan
[2:00] <hyc> swfdec is pretty good code, I've worked with it a fair amount
[2:01] <hyc> but I think they still only really support up to flash version 8.
[2:04] * Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-173.phnet.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[3:15] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: do you have the binary kernel available somewhere
[3:15] <Corsac> without uboot stuff
[3:31] * Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-173.phnet.fi) has joined #Touchbook
[3:31] * hyc_tb (n=hyc_tb@ Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[3:34] * hyc_tb (n=hyc_tb@ has joined #touchbook
[3:49] * fooq (n=reini@ has joined #touchbook
[4:12] <Corsac> nokia n900 announced
[4:15] <andrewgodwin> Corsac: where?
[4:15] <andrewgodwin> ah, got it
[4:22] <dpb> maemo.nokia.com
[4:30] * Simeon_H (n=simeon@unaffiliated/darkhomsar/x-384240) has joined #touchbook
[4:30] <Simeon_H> wow is gregoiregentil really Gregoire?
[4:32] <dpb> yes
[4:32] <Simeon_H> awesome
[4:33] <dpb> viridior: you should give gregoire some chanserv access to the channel ;)
[4:33] <Simeon_H> gregoiregentil, how are the profits going
[4:57] * Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-173.phnet.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[5:01] * Simeon_H (n=simeon@unaffiliated/darkhomsar/x-384240) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[5:36] * Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #touchbook
[5:46] * robclark (n=robclark@nat/ti/x-vtvbiazayhddfndw) has joined #touchbook
[6:03] <koen> gregoiregentil: I think the psion netbook was the first arm based netbook :)
[6:21] * shiznebit (n=chatzill@ has joined #touchbook
[6:33] <shiznebit> any word on using Maemo on the TouchBoo
[6:34] <shiznebit> it to has the same hardware
[6:41] <Corsac> well, not exactly, but it might be possible
[6:41] <Corsac> thought nobody yet tried :)
[6:42] * Jomarino1 (n=jomarino@pool-96-228-141-100.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) has joined #touchbook
[6:42] <dpb> just as possible as running it on the beagleboard
[6:42] <shiznebit> which is ?
[6:43] <shiznebit> it ?
[6:43] <dpb> some alpha was made to run on the beagleboard, but they haven't ported the latest versions on it
[6:44] <Jomarino1> Hello Everyone... I have been reading the logs and just wanted to say all of you are doing a wonderfull job!!! Keep up the good work :-)
[6:44] <shiznebit> isn't it the same or similiar hardware ?
[6:45] <dpb> shiznebit: similar, yeah
[6:45] <dpb> shiznebit: but the kernel needs to be different, and some boot scripts need editing etc, so it won't Just Run (tm)
[6:46] <shiznebit> but their is a high probability that it'll work
[6:47] <Corsac> if someone takes care of it :)
[6:47] <dpb> yeah
[6:47] <dpb> shiznebit: and kernels on omap3 boards is a huge pain to get to work
[6:48] <Corsac> yeah
[6:48] <shiznebit> why though ?
[6:48] * Corsac fights with qemu for that
[6:48] <Corsac> and I don't win :/
[6:48] <shiznebit> what makes it so difficult
[6:49] <dpb> the omap3 kernel stuff is located all over the internet, it's black magic to find the right repo to use etc.
[6:49] <dpb> and the right kernel config
[6:52] * Jomarino1 (n=jomarino@pool-96-228-141-100.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) has left #touchbook
[7:00] * jamesb_ (n=james@user-11fa82d.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #touchbook
[7:01] <jamesb_> is Corsac still on?
[7:06] <Corsac> yes
[7:07] <jamesb_> you beat me to the punch 3 hours: "[4:12] <Corsac> nokia n900 announced"
[7:07] <jamesb_> that's what I get for sleeping ;-)
[7:08] <Corsac> :)
[7:08] <Corsac> it's 4pm here :)
[7:08] <jamesb_> right...
[7:08] <jamesb_> anyway... nice (if you don't mind 3.5", 800x480 screen)
[7:44] <shiznebit> thats just awesome
[7:44] <shiznebit> you can play back xvid without rencoding
[7:44] <shiznebit> if this phone is good on battery its PERFECT
[7:45] <dpb> (can't be perfect, it runs maemo..)
[7:46] <shiznebit> flash, camera with flash, OSD DSP for accelerated video,
[7:46] <shiznebit> what ?
[7:46] <shiznebit> [10:47] <dpb> (can't be perfect, it runs maemo..) <- wat chya mean ?
[7:46] <dpb> maemo is pretty awful <.<
[7:47] <shiznebit> orly ?
[7:48] <shiznebit> how come ?it has a tv-tuner as well
[7:48] <shiznebit> HOLY SHIT
[7:49] <dpb> Sounds like a toy for kids. Who the hell would want tv in a small phone screen?
[7:49] <shiznebit> it siunds like the phones they have in japan
[7:50] <shiznebit> reminds me of Tokyo Drift :D
[7:51] <dpb> shiznebit: I've worked with Maemo, and the experiences from it isn't that nice... it's full of awful hacks etc.
[7:51] <shiznebit> hmm
[7:51] <shiznebit> awful hacks ?
[7:52] <shiznebit> ins't it based on debian
[7:54] <dpb> it's a forked debian with tons of awful hacks put on top :)
[7:55] <shiznebit> that isn't very clear
[7:56] <andrewgodwin> it's not that bad, IMO
[7:57] <andrewgodwin> I've developed for Maemo before, and it's far better than most mobile devices
[7:58] <shiznebit> it doesn;'t run a shitty VM, does it ?
[8:00] <dpb> andrewgodwin: sure, developing *for* it probably isn't so bad.. but developing *it*... *shivers*
[8:00] <shiznebit> you developed it ?
[8:01] <shiznebit> atleast give the worst hack you encountered
[8:01] <dpb> I keep hearing stories every day, but I try to do my best to forget them.
[8:02] <dpb> So I wouldn't have nightmares about them.
[8:02] <andrewgodwin> well, using a full linux distro on ANYTHING that small is going to be hard
[8:02] <andrewgodwin> it doesn't help they have to have a load of custom system bits for booting, shutdown, etc
[8:02] <dpb> (I'm one of the developers of Scratchbox, the build environment Maemo uses)
[8:02] <andrewgodwin> ah, indeed
[8:03] <andrewgodwin> I'll defer to your experiences then :)
[8:03] <andrewgodwin> still, _someone's_ writing it, and I like writing apps for it :)
[8:03] <dpb> I'd rather take an android phone.
[8:04] <andrewgodwin> It'll probably be more stable :)
[8:04] <dpb> yeah :)
[8:04] <shiznebit> LMAO at android
[8:04] <andrewgodwin> but not as shiny or unlocked
[8:04] <shiznebit> yeah
[8:04] <shiznebit> and it uses DVM
[8:05] <shiznebit> which is completely degrading performance
[8:05] <dpb> andrewgodwin: i'd say android is more shiny, but yeah, more locked..
[8:05] <andrewgodwin> i can't call anything with that screen res shiny
[8:05] <andrewgodwin> i like my websites 800px wide
[8:06] <andrewgodwin> still, dubious about the n900's keyboard
[8:06] <dpb> I use computers for websites.
[8:06] <shiznebit> that keyboard would work better if it had number keys at the top
[8:07] <andrewgodwin> then you're presumably not the target audience of a high-res screen :)
[8:07] <dpb> It's probably just as crap as in n810
[8:07] <andrewgodwin> the n810 at least had 4 rows
[8:07] <andrewgodwin> not _3_
[8:07] <dpb> Ok, so the n900 might have even crappier keyboard ;)
[8:08] <andrewgodwin> still, I'd take anything over the iPhone's touchfest
[8:08] <dpb> I don't really care if the keyboard is hardware or touch, as long as I can easily irc with it. <.<
[8:09] <andrewgodwin> heh :) They need Optimus-like changeable keys
[8:09] <andrewgodwin> for a "/me" button
[8:10] <dpb> That wouldn't be fun. (I use ' as my command char in my irssi, not /)
[8:11] <andrewgodwin> well, it would be a reporgrammable key... still, I expect roughly 1 hour of battery life if that ever happened
[8:14] <dpb> I'll have my TouchBook for hacking, I don't need to hack my phone too.
[8:14] * jvs (n=jvs@ has joined #touchbook
[8:16] <jvs> good afternoon
[8:16] <dpb> Evening.
[8:17] <jamesb_> good morning!
[8:18] <jamesb_> shiznebit: re your question from 4 days ago "is there any project that uses open-maps and gives turn-by-turn directions ?"
[8:18] <jamesb_> take a look at flite with maemo mapper
[8:19] <jamesb_> no endorsement, just something I came across this morning
[8:19] <jamesb_> if you get it to work, let me know :-)
[8:36] * killring (n=killring@adsl-76-226-152-80.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #touchbook
[8:42] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[9:13] <jvs> any news?
[9:13] <jvs> any mails?
[9:17] <dpb> no
[9:21] <jvs> oki
[9:31] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
[9:43] <jvs> hmm
[9:46] <jvs> Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to have a touchbook?
[9:50] * shiznebit (n=chatzill@ Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]")
[9:51] <fooq> spielt ihr nicht seit 55min fussball?
[9:51] <fooq> aah sry :)
[9:51] <fooq> wrong room
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[10:14] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[10:17] <jvs> cheers simon______
[10:25] <Corsac> hey there
[10:26] <Corsac> dpb: btw, maemo 5 is based on ubuntu now, iirc
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[10:34] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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[10:43] * shiznebit (n=chatzill@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:07] * Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[11:36] * mrwoo (n=kurtis@ has joined #touchbook
[11:37] <mrwoo> gregoire: I LOVE THE NEW VIDEOS! So cool! I can't wait to get mine
[11:39] <dpb> Corsac: no it's not.
[11:40] <Corsac> ok
[11:42] <dpb> It has taken some of the stuff ubuntu uses (like upstart), but nowadays maemo is pretty separate from any other distro.
[12:02] * azaghal (n=azaghal@ has joined #touchbook
[12:02] <azaghal> Hello.
[12:02] <jkridner|work> not sure if many of you are listening to Gregoire talking now: http://wiki.omap.com/index.php/ETechDays_Community_Lightning_Talks
[12:02] <azaghal> So... What are the experiences so far? :) I'm particulary interested in battery benchmarks :)
[12:05] <mrwoo> jkridner, how can we listen in?
[12:06] * shiznebit (n=chatzill@ has joined #touchbook
[12:07] <azaghal> Anyone had experience with ordering Touch Book (and getting it) to France?
[12:08] <jkridner|work> mrwoo: sure.
[12:08] <jkridner|work> it is being recorded.
[12:08] <jkridner|work> so, you'll be able to see the archives.
[12:09] <mrwoo> awesome
[12:14] <Corsac> azaghal: I ordered from france but not yet shipped
[12:15] <Corsac> though I don't think there would be any problem
[12:15] <azaghal> Corsac: Ah, could you tell me what are the rules regarding France when it comes down to taxes etc for ordered stuff?
[12:17] <Corsac> no idea for the touchbook
[12:17] <Corsac> for my thinkpad, I bought it (from us) tax free, and then the transporter asked me for TVA
[12:17] <Corsac> I guess it'll be the same for the TB
[12:18] <Corsac> though, international shipments are kind-of hackish, it wasn't planned at the beginning, so maybe gregoiregentil will have more info on this
[12:19] <honk> the real question is when there'll be enough to ship stuff ordered now anyway ;P
[12:19] <Corsac> in october all pre-orders should be fullfilled
[12:23] <honk> mhhz
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[12:25] <azaghal_> Corsac: Well, the thing is that ordering to Serbia would mean paying VAT + 200 bucks for "standardisation".
[12:25] <azaghal_> So I'm trying to find other ways :)
[12:26] <azaghal_> I'm mostly interested if France has any similar taxes beyond VAT.
[12:33] * azaghal (n=azaghal@ Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[12:36] <Corsac> standardization?
[12:42] <azaghal_> Corsac: Tax which prevents people from ordering things directly via Internet, but doesn't prevent big importers to buy stuff because to them it's negligible :)
[12:42] <azaghal_> I'd like to call it "racketeering" myself.
[12:42] <azaghal_> Corsac: Thanks to that, for example, Alix router boards here cost 1/3 more. ;)
[12:43] <shiznebit> at the same time
[12:43] <shiznebit> you have health-care and alot of other shit
[12:43] <shiznebit> that strangely cant be done in America
[12:44] <honk> shiznebit: that's completely unrelated though ;P
[12:44] <shiznebit> lol
[12:44] <honk> the higher prices for electronics are not caused by taxes
[12:44] <shiznebit> yea cause tax doesn't pay for those things
[12:44] <shiznebit> VAT Tax is what again ?
[12:45] <honk> the tax may be a little bit higher, but it doesnt make up for more than 10% difference or so
[12:45] <honk> less than 20% :)
[12:45] <azaghal_> shiznebit: Funny thing is we have food more expensive than in the EU, with much smaller wages :)
[12:46] <azaghal_> And, to be honest, we're a lawless state. Those who have money can really do anything they want. And they don't even have to be too rich to do so.
[12:46] <azaghal_> No paid overtime, yet everybody expects it etc.
[12:46] <shiznebit> France right ?
[12:46] <azaghal_> Nope, Serbia :)
[12:46] <shiznebit> oh
[12:46] <shiznebit> psh
[12:46] <azaghal_> But, to be honest, I'm almost surely moving to France at springtime to find a new job ;)
[12:46] <shiznebit> im suprised you have internet
[12:48] <azaghal_> 512/512kbps, baby ;)
[12:48] <azaghal_> I'm surprised we _still_ have a state :P
[12:55] <shiznebit> Serbia is alot like russia
[12:55] <shiznebit> most people are broke poor or at the level of poverty
[12:55] <shiznebit> but the government insists that everything is fine
[12:56] <azaghal_> No it isn't. In Russia poverty gets you!
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[12:56] <azaghal_> (pun, heheh)
[12:56] <azaghal_> Anyway, I'll stop the political talk, this channel isn't about it :)
[12:56] <azaghal_> I'm almost 100% sure I'll get the Touch Book ordered once I get some confirmation about battery lifetime.
[12:57] <honk> well, someone said yesterday that his netbook was running 8 hours with wifi and bt enabled =)
[12:57] <honk> (and not just idling around either)
[12:58] <azaghal_> honk: I'd kind of like to find out extreme conditions as well (such as bursting the CPU for quite some time etc)
[12:58] <honk> :)
[12:58] <azaghal_> I'm also surprised there's almost on ARM-based netbooks out there.
[12:58] <azaghal_> Well, I'm not _really_ surprised. We all know it's because they need to be able to run Winblow$ :)
[12:58] <honk> yeah
[12:59] <shiznebit> and its so hard to put together
[12:59] <shiznebit> because so much stuff can break with certain kernels
[12:59] <azaghal_> Man, where's the answer on FAQ about "not recommending running Window$"? :/
[13:00] <honk> I'm surprised that there were no arm based tablets before the touchbook though
[13:00] <shiznebit> the true test is how long is battery life with everything on while playing video and having the audio blasting
[13:00] <shiznebit> if that test gets 5hrs
[13:00] <azaghal_> Ah, nvm, it's there: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/info.htm
[13:00] <shiznebit> it PWNS all
[13:00] <azaghal_> Now the "We don't really do Windows" thing had really won me over, to be honest :)
[13:01] <honk> I wonder why noone's been posting any values on battery life yet :}
[13:01] <shiznebit> except for the PowerVR is a PITA binary blob
[13:01] <azaghal_> shiznebit: The frustrating part about most specs you can find on various netbooks is that the battery lifetime is usually heavily exaggerated, I think.
[13:02] <shiznebit> azaghal_: very true
[13:02] <shiznebit> and even more so on laptops
[13:02] <honk> azaghal_: but 8 hours of real usage (that guy said he was developing (including compiling stuff) all the time) is pretty impressive imho :]
[13:03] <azaghal_> honk: Yes, it is. But I'm just curious about extreme conditions.
[13:03] <shiznebit> i wish they reported only atleast battery life
[13:03] <azaghal_> Heck, even if it lasted 2-3 hours with 100% load on everything possible it'd rock.
[13:03] <azaghal_> shiznebit: I have a Dell Inspiron here, my uncle gave it to me (6400, I think). That thing has a battery that can last for ~6 hours of moderate usage.
[13:04] <azaghal_> Toshiba at work? Dead after 2-3.
[13:04] <shiznebit> whos the one who said 8hrs ?
[13:05] <shiznebit> is he on irc ?
[13:05] <shiznebit> well compiling and developing stuff is not moderate usage
[13:05] <honk> depends on how much time is spent developing and how much compiling ;P
[13:05] <honk> lemme scroll up ;P
[13:06] <honk> [19:16:32] <hyc> So far I've gotten 8 hours while editing / compiling / testing code.
[13:06] <honk> [19:16:47] <hyc> fairly intensive use, really.
[13:07] <honk> [19:27:21] <gregoiregentil> Yes. This is correct. I expect a 15 to 20% increase of battery when everything will be optimized and polished
[13:07] <honk> and of course that one ;P
[13:07] <shiznebit> wow
[13:07] <shiznebit> now just want mine even more
[13:07] <azaghal_> Hm... I just need several more confirmations :)
[13:07] <honk> [19:24:36] <hyc_tb> no, I was using wifi most of that time [19:24:46] <hyc_tb> bluetooth was active too
[13:07] <azaghal_> I've been a bit burnt by buying the Neo Freerunner already.
[13:07] <azaghal_> Thanks for the posts
[13:07] <honk> yeah, I want one, too
[13:08] <shiznebit> azaghal_: hmm wait for the N900 if anything
[13:08] <shiznebit> that should be good
[13:08] <honk> backlog of orders and not having a CC is keeping me from ordering anything yet though ;)
[13:08] <shiznebit> of course batlife is questionable there as well
[13:09] <azaghal_> shiznebit: Neo Freerunner is literally just a little bit away from being really usable, though. Pitty the company went out :/
[13:09] <hyc_tb> yes, I'm very happy with the battery life so far
[13:09] <azaghal_> hyc_tb: Tried burning it like maniac for several hours already?
[13:09] <shiznebit> so can we call 20 hours of moderate to idle usage ?
[13:10] <azaghal_> Btw, you mentioned October regarding fulfilment of backorders, would that be at the end of October?
[13:10] <azaghal_> Oh, and any info on how long it takes to get the thing shipped to EU?
[13:10] <Corsac> shiznebit: tests currently say 8h with wifi+bt and no pm-enabled kernel
[13:10] <hyc_tb> I haven't tried any battery burn in test, no
[13:10] <Corsac> (about battery life)
[13:10] <azaghal_> hyc_tb: Care to experiment? :)
[13:11] <Corsac> ok so now I have a replacement for my X31, and a replacement for my phone
[13:11] <Corsac> \o/
[13:11] <azaghal_> But 8 hours still rocks.
[13:11] <Corsac> phone being way more expensive than TB :/
[13:11] <hyc_tb> but I've been using it pretty much as I would expect to use it - wifi -irc, browsing, etc. while compiling and other stuff
[13:11] <honk> shiznebit: I very much doubt that the n900 will havy any problems with battery life
[13:11] <hyc_tb> downloading videos, experimenting with the video playback
[13:12] <azaghal_> Hm... Is there any info on number of current orders?
[13:12] <shiznebit> is the OSD Neous platform useable ?
[13:12] <honk> azaghal_: I dont think so, only that they'll be shipping the last preordered items in october
[13:13] <azaghal_> Ah, those are preordered as in before they started actually shipping?
[13:13] <azaghal_> So the past several weeks it's still filling-up the queue?
[13:13] <Corsac> azaghal_: shipping for september and october are ???mid-month???
[13:13] <hyc_tb> yeah most likely.
[13:13] <Corsac> but tbh the only one able to really answer questions is gregoiregentil
[13:14] <hyc_tb> I seem to recall they said they would be caught up to June orders by September
[13:14] <Corsac> but he's already overbooked
[13:14] <Corsac> so don't expect quick replies :)
[13:14] <Corsac> hyc_tb: US ones
[13:14] <Corsac> hyc_tb: international ones will be a bit delayed
[13:14] <azaghal_> Hm... Need to figure out if it'd get in France before middle of December.
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[13:25] <Corsac> basically, the sooner you order, the sooner you'll get it
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[13:30] <azaghal_> True, but I can only get it when my uncle comes over :)
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[19:35] <hyc_g1> hmmm. it looks like the new Sandisk 30MB/s SD cards don't work in the TB
[19:35] <hyc_g1> I have a 4GB and a 16GB
[19:35] <hyc_g1> I also have a 4GB Kingston that works fine
[19:36] <hyc_g1> on boot, just after it says Please wait, the screen goes dark and nothing else happens after that.
[19:39] <hyc_g1> hm.... or I just formatted it badly the first time.
[19:40] <hyc_g1> I just dd'd the entire 4G kingston onto the sandisk, and now it boots.
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[20:27] <ptelder> hyc: Just catching up with the backlog - SD cards have to be formatted a certain way for the system to be happy. It buried in the script comments on http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Reinstall_OS
[20:28] <hyc_tb> yes, I know
[20:28] <hyc_tb> I just forgot a step
[20:28] <hyc_tb> :P
[20:28] <ptelder> At least you have the hardware in your hands to make the mistakes with...
[20:28] <hyc_tb> I created the partitions correctly, copied all the right files. forgot to mkfs the home partition, that's all
[20:29] <hyc_tb> not really seeing any performance difference with this Sandisk card. I guess the bundled card is already quite fast.
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[20:32] <hyc_tb> so... 10MB/sec writes to this Sandisk card
[20:32] <hyc_tb> that's certainly faster than the 6-7MB/sec my Kingston card was getting
[20:32] <jamesb_> what's the bundled card?
[20:33] <hyc_tb> but despite a 50% improvement, it's not a big enough change to actually notice in normal use
[20:33] <hyc_tb> the bundled card I have says Silicon Power
[20:33] <jamesb_> hmm...
[20:33] <hyc_tb> I recall that's a Chinese company
[20:34] <jamesb_> as opposed to... ? ;-)
[20:34] <bstag> :>
[20:34] <hyc_tb> SanDisk is US
[20:34] <bstag> lol
[20:34] <hyc_tb> silicon valley
[20:34] <bstag> ordered from china
[20:34] <hyc_tb> heh
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[20:52] <hyc> uh oh... looks like the wifi driver has a memory leak or something
[20:53] <mrwoo> ay no!
[20:54] <hyc> need to reboot it and see again...
[20:54] <adricnet> I had no luck getting wifi to work on a wpa2 tkip netowrk a hour ago. let me upload the dmesg log ...
[20:55] <hyc> adricnet: wpa-psk?
[20:56] <adricnet> hyc: I think so? Log in a sec.
[20:56] <hyc> ok... I was only able to test wpa-eap/peap
[20:56] <hyc> but the scripts I wrote used the same commands for wpa-psk as the forum thread used
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[20:58] <hyc> wpa-psk is handled directly by the ralink driver
[20:58] <hyc> wpa_supplicant is only used for wpa-eap
[20:58] <hyc> looks like 2009-08b still ships the broken wpa_supplicant
[20:58] <adricnet> dmesg -> http://www.atlbbs.com/tb/dmesg.wpa.log
[20:59] <adricnet> Thought I caught the iw scan, but I didn't, sorry
[20:59] <hyc> hmmm, yeah all I see in here is scans tho
[21:00] <hyc> I'm going to take a stab at adding the rt3070 init code to the rt2800usb driver in the mainline kernel
[21:00] <adricnet> yeah. dmesg , circular buffer. no logging to file by default. I had some cron'd, before I reimaged ...
[21:00] <hyc> I don't trust this driver...
[21:00] <adricnet> Huh. Man, I really think I gotta sell this thing. I'm no help with the work that needs doing.
[21:00] <hyc> of course, the rt2800usb driver is probably pretty flaky too.
[21:01] <jamesb_> mine!!!!!
[21:01] <jamesb_> dibs
[21:01] <hyc> lol
[21:01] <adricnet> USB is flaky on the hw, as you know.
[21:01] <hyc> I just saw that someone else received one in the mail today
[21:01] <adricnet> Hi jamesb_ : Did you pre order? Much experience hacking embedded systems?
[21:01] <jamesb_> not nearly early enough. and not so much
[21:02] <hyc> so I think the base of active developers will continue to grow quickly
[21:02] <adricnet> jamesb_: I dont' want to make things too hard on myself, but ..
[21:02] <hyc> but yeah, folks who want to have one and get a lot of good use out of it right off the bat ... are probably going to be disappointed
[21:02] <adricnet> hyc: it will, it will. I want to help with that, actually .. and I think mine will be more help in the hands of more .. awesome dev
[21:02] <adricnet> and that's the other side of it. It comes down to this:
[21:02] <hyc> then again, plain wifi and wep works fine
[21:03] <jamesb_> undestood, and no complaints -- I love watching what you guys are doing!
[21:03] <adricnet> I can't really afford a $400 netbook right now, but that's my problem. I absolutely cannot pay $400 to be in an armel developer program, as awesome as that might be.
[21:04] <adricnet> So, I think I should find a home for this fellow in the budding community, rather than sending it back to AI. Does that sound right?
[21:04] <jamesb_> well if you're serious about selling... yeah
[21:04] <jamesb_> sell to someone who's ready to eager to help
[21:04] <jamesb_> several on this channel, for sure
[21:04] <jamesb_> throw a bone to one of the folks across the pond...
[21:05] <adricnet> And prepared to at this stage, yes. Also I'd like to keep from adding to AI's workload.
[21:05] <hyc> sounds decent
[21:05] <jamesb_> I'm sure you'll find no shortage of buyers here
[21:05] <adricnet> Sure. I can do up a forum post or whatever, and can ship anywhere UPS goes.
[21:05] <jamesb_> +1
[21:06] <jamesb_> how about a coding contest -- hyc can pose a problem, the first person who solves it wins the right to buy your tb
[21:06] <hyc> though it feels a bit odd; they went to the trouble of collecting preorders and prioritizing a list
[21:06] <adricnet> Thanks guys, let me work on that then ... that sounds fun, but might be awfully hard ;)
[21:06] <hyc> mebbe you should just sell it to whoever's next on their list :P
[21:06] <adricnet> hyc: They did, and I want to ask gg how he feels too.
[21:06] <hyc> good idea
[21:07] <adricnet> I just really want someone to be a) happy with the purchase and b) helpful to the community effort to make this thing as awesome as it can be.
[21:07] <hyc> I think it's a bit of a shame though. I understand the money pressure.
[21:07] <hyc> but not sure you should feel bad about not contributing enough to the community. everybody plays a role.
[21:07] <adricnet> I've been thinking about it sine it actually shipped. Money was better in march, and so on.
[21:07] <jamesb_> hyc: true that
[21:08] <adricnet> hyc: I'm already not contributing enough to several communities, and I'm not even talking about household chores, lol.
[21:08] <Corsac> hey
[21:08] <adricnet> hey Corsac , how's it going?
[21:09] <hyc> howdy
[21:09] <adricnet> hyc, jamesb_: Thanks for the kind words.
[21:09] <hyc> so yeah, if you just consider it from the perspective of what you can afford, time and money, then that's the best decision you can make
[21:10] <adricnet> If I could doante it, I'd be asking Debian for the armel team's shipping address, but alas .. I cannot afford that.
[21:11] * hyc (n=hyc@ Quit ("Leaving.")
[21:11] <adricnet> Anywho, I'll work on the wording for a forum post, and if you see gg before I do, ask him to contact me out-of-channel, please?
[21:12] <Corsac> adricnet: fine, thanks
[21:13] <Corsac> adricnet: though it'd be even better with a mail in my inbox :)
[21:13] <adricnet> Corsac: Still no word? When did you pre?
[21:13] <Corsac> end july
[21:13] <Corsac> and international
[21:13] <Corsac> adricnet: and if you want a contact with debian armel team, just ask me
[21:14] <Corsac> aurel32 (Aurelien Jarno) which is an armel port, is french and we see each other from time to time
[21:14] <adricnet> Corsac: Well, if one of them wants to buy a TB, sure. I need to money too bad to donate, unfortunately. :(
[21:20] <Corsac> ok
[21:20] <Corsac> out of interest, how much would you sell it?
[21:22] <adricnet> Corsac: Thinking about that a lot. What do you think? List price?
[21:23] <Corsac> I'm don't know yet the french retail price so it's a bit hard to tell
[21:23] <jamesb_> list price, plus tax & shipping you paid already, plus shipping to new buyer
[21:23] <Corsac> in the end, how much did you paid?
[21:23] <jamesb_> you should come out whole; but shouldn't gouge
[21:24] <adricnet> Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's list plus the speed of shipping the proud new owner wants.
[21:24] <jamesb_> if you want good karma, that is
[21:25] <adricnet> I fear I do not hav it in me to profit greatly off of this, even though I could use the money.
[21:26] <adricnet> If it turns out to be the UK or Euro price, that'd be fine :)
[21:27] <adricnet> Is te mod for the innovatingtouch forum in channel? I'd like his input before I post this thingy.
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[21:29] <adricnet> I quite like the idea of it being someone who wants one but couldn't buy due to overseas.
[21:29] <Corsac> well, I'm overseas and could buy one
[21:29] <Corsac> we're just not in top of the list
[21:30] <adricnet> Oh is that what happened? Hmm
[21:33] <adricnet> So, you are for Oct, or ... ?
[21:34] * adricnet went through the nightmare of overseas fulfillment once or twice as an OLPC support volunteer.
[21:36] <Corsac> adricnet: I don't really know
[21:36] <Corsac> hope to be part of the september batch
[21:39] * factor (n=factor@ip70-189-85-196.ok.ok.cox.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[21:47] <adricnet> Corsac: Well, okay. Let me know if you have any thoughts. I dont' want to gum up the channel with this more than needed.
[21:49] <Corsac> so the price order would be around $400?
[21:50] <adricnet> Corsac: Yes, that plus whatever shipping they'd want. I can UPS it out tomorrow and then it just depends on how far how fast.
[22:21] <adricnet> Draft post at http://adric.net/developersdevelopersdevelopers.htm Comments and complaints appreciated.
[22:22] * gregoiregentil (n=gregoire@adsl-71-135-127-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:22] <gregoiregentil> Hello
[22:22] <hyc_tb> howdy
[22:22] <hyc_tb> adricnet was just looking for you ;)
[22:22] <adricnet> Hi gregoiregentil , got a minute?
[22:22] <gregoiregentil> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/27/nokia-n900-launch
[22:22] <gregoiregentil> "It also has 256MB of RAM ??? double the capacity of the N97 and the same as the iPhone ??? with Nokia saying the total memory available to applications is actually 1GB as it has virtual memory capabilities."
[22:22] <gregoiregentil> Any idea how they do that? Compressed memory?
[22:23] <gregoiregentil> it's an OMAP3430 with the same memory chip as us
[22:23] <killring> paging in and out of flash? really bad idea, imo
[22:23] <adricnet> Running maemo 5? or so they say. sounds nice but quite expensive.
[22:23] <hyc_tb> eh, i think they just added swap onto their flash
[22:23] <dpb> gregoiregentil: I think it's just swap memory the rest of it
[22:24] <adricnet> Swap on flash? Even with wear levelling that's ugly.
[22:24] <killring> they probably have some fine print that says 'flash rated for x thousand writes or a single afternoon of stupidity'
[22:24] <hyc_tb> the G1 is doing the same thing
[22:24] <gregoiregentil> it can work. We did for our previous project Zonbu. We had the same Silicon Power kind of card
[22:25] <dpb> adricnet: well the latest maemo for N810 supports swap too ;)
[22:25] <adricnet> dpb: No doubt. people were enabling swap on the N770 using the lil card slot, back in the day.
[22:25] <dpb> Yep
[22:25] <dpb> (and it's just plain 770, it's not N)
[22:26] <hyc_tb> it's painfully slow on my g1 phone tho
[22:26] <adricnet> dpb: An incorrect abbreviation.
[22:26] <adricnet> What swap? Swap on Android does not work well, ime.
[22:26] <dpb> :)
[22:27] <hyc_tb> right, swap on Android tends to lock up myphone
[22:27] <adricnet> dpb: 770 is a area code around here, so I think I sued a different keyword to avoid collisions :D
[22:27] <adricnet> hyc_tb: faster than not using it, oddly enough .. *grumble*
[22:27] * killring (n=killring@adsl-76-226-152-80.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
[22:27] <adricnet> The new one (myTouch) has more ram, but no keyboard. It's not fair.
[22:27] <dpb> "Nokia 770" would have worked. ;)
[22:28] <hyc_tb> yeah, I was annoyed at that too. the most useful app on my G1 is the ssh client.
[22:28] <adricnet> dpb: Yep. Seems I didn't save any typing at all, ha.
[22:28] <adricnet> ConnectBot is awesome!
[22:28] <dpb> I was just looking at Sony Ericsson XPeria X3 stuff yesterday, that would be interesting when it comes out..
[22:28] <dpb> (runs android)
[22:29] <dpb> I should sell my 770 and N810 somewhere, I never use them...
[22:29] <hyc_tb> I think the Android approach is misguided. sandboxing everything inside java vms just cripples the hardware
[22:29] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: I know you're super busy, so if you don't' have time for a quick chat off channel, please comment on draft at http://adric.net/developersdevelopersdevelopers.htm
[22:30] <adricnet> hyc_tb: They wanted to keep the apps portable so the market would work on all Android devices of whatever scale.
[22:30] <gregoiregentil> adircnet: Link is not working
[22:30] <adricnet> hyc: It already runs on three archs, ffs. It's really annoying to use unix tools on, I agree.
[22:30] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: http://adric.net/developersdevelopersdevelopers.htm < - better?
[22:31] <gregoiregentil> Unable to connect
[22:31] <gregoiregentil> Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.adric.net.
[22:31] <jamesb_> works for me
[22:31] <hyc_tb> me too
[22:31] <adricnet> www ? I dunno if that will work or not there.
[22:31] <hyc_tb> adricnet - just IM him and give him the rundown
[22:31] <gregoiregentil> sorry. problem of connection on my side
[22:31] <adricnet> Hmm, www, seems to work.
[22:32] <jamesb_> gregoiregentil: or you can catch up in the archive
[22:32] * gregoiregentil (n=gregoire@adsl-71-135-127-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:32] <adricnet> hyc_tb: Yeah, been trying to ask him to contact me off channel, I guess I can try that.
[22:34] <hyc_tb> should be no problem to repartition the SD card, make a 4th partition for swap space
[22:34] <hyc_tb> I may give that a try
[22:34] <hyc_tb> especially since I ran out of memory a few times while compiling various perl modules
[22:34] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:35] <adricnet> hyc_tb: On TB or G1, both ?
[22:35] <dpb> What does opkg and bitbake have to do with Unix?
[22:35] <hyc_tb> on the TB
[22:36] <adricnet> dpb: Pretty vital to the state of things on TB right now.
[22:36] <hyc_tb> dpb: bitbake is the main tool for building TB binaries
[22:36] <hyc_tb> opkg/ipkg is the package manager
[22:36] <dpb> still, what does it have to do with Unix? TB doesn't run Unix.
[22:36] <dpb> and Unix doesn't run opkg or bitbake.
[22:36] <adricnet> dpb: Semantics, fine. I concede.
[22:37] <hyc> Linux, POSIX
[22:37] <hyc> if you're an old hand on Unix, you can do Linux...
[22:37] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:37] <adricnet> And sometimes knowing Linux helps you on Unix ... sometimes. *shakes fist at Solaris*
[22:37] <dpb> but Unix doesn't have opkg or bitbake, so if you're an old hand on Unix, you won't know them. ;)
[22:37] * hyc_tb (n=hyc@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[22:37] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:38] <hyc> heh
[22:38] <adricnet> dpb: True enough, but that also may mena you aren't the one I'm looking for.
[22:38] <hyc> but that doesn't matter, I'd never used them before a few days ago
[22:38] <dpb> I'm waiting for my own.
[22:39] * jamesb_ (n=james@user-11fa82d.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:40] <adricnet> hyc: Expect for dd, right? :D
[22:40] * gregoiregentil (n=gregoire@ has joined #touchbook
[22:40] <gregoiregentil> OK
[22:40] <hyc> lol
[22:40] <gregoiregentil> I'm back. Sorry.
[22:41] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: No problem, sorry to bug you.
[22:41] <gregoiregentil> Strange. anyway, so adricnet, not sure to fully understand. but everything is open
[22:41] <gregoiregentil> so, I'm fine.
[22:41] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: Okay, thanks. I think this is a better plan than returning to you, yes?
[22:42] <dpb> (and I've used all of those 3 tools before)
[22:44] <adricnet> dpb: Cool!
[22:44] <dpb> Quite much hate bitbake though. :P
[22:45] <adricnet> Yeah, my initial experience was pretty unpleasant.
[22:46] <adricnet> With bitbake I mean. I apt'd it into a debian server and tried to build, uh .. nano. It whirred and spun and emited noxious gasses and in the morning it had failed for various reasons.
[22:46] <hyc> adricnet: yeah, I told you to expect that...
[22:46] <dpb> I've been one of the developers of the Matrix tool, that ALIP uses. It's similiar to bitbake, but imo much better. (though it sucks a somewhat too..)
[22:47] <adricnet> hyc: Well, yes :) I wasn't surprised, but not impressed either
[22:47] <hyc> I was just kinda apalled that bitbake ate 200MB of RAM just to be a glorified make command
[22:47] <adricnet> I didn't dare watch top to see what it did to that vm while it was "working". Gah.
[22:49] <hyc> gregoiregentil: these Silicon Power SD cards are impressively fast.
[22:50] <hyc> my brand new Sandisk Extreme III 30MB/sec cards are barely as fast.
[22:52] <adricnet> This is almost on topic: How should I pack thise magnets to make them easy to get apart? Cardboard between them?
[22:53] <hyc> yeah, that would be my suggestion
[22:53] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
[22:53] <hyc> like I mentioned elsewhere, I folded an old credit card in half and use that
[22:54] <adricnet> Ooh, yeah, that could work. It was tough just sliding them off the fridge now.
[22:54] <hyc> yeah...
[22:55] <hyc> ok, I made a 4th partition on my SD card and now have 1GB of swap space
[22:56] * hyc_tb (n=hyc@ has joined #touchbook
[22:58] <gregoiregentil> hyc: cool for SD. Silicon Power is good supplier. We used them in the past. Not too expensive and good card indeed. Still have a few problems but it was a right choice.
[23:01] <gregoiregentil> Yes, the magnets are a great idea but it needs a small refinement. I'm sure that you have seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZm6qM0KPpg. I have also posted this: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Magnets
[23:01] <gregoiregentil> to separate them, the easiest way is to push one magnet while you hold the other on the edge of a table
[23:01] <gregoiregentil> the credit card idea of hyc does something similar
[23:02] <hyc> ah, the credit card is just a sandwich to keep them separate while stacked
[23:02] <gregoiregentil> hyc: now just imagine that I have thousands of magnets and we need to separate them three by three when we ship devices... big lol and big :-(
[23:03] <hyc> I also used the edge of a table to get them apart in the first place
[23:03] <hyc> yeah, that sounds like a major hassle
[23:03] <gregoiregentil> Fortunately, in the production in China, I asked to have separation between every three magnets
[23:03] <gregoiregentil> so it's not too difficult. Ideally, something between each magnet for the customer would be great
[23:03] <hyc> cool. was going to say, a strong aluminum tube might do the trick for leverage
[23:04] <gregoiregentil> though, I'm a little bit skeptical because even if they are separated, you can't resist to play with them the first time and I'm sure that 99% of teh customers would manage to let them attract...
[23:05] <gregoiregentil> I think that the idea would be to have a triangle piece of plastic. This would also help to have the magnet where they suppose to be
[23:05] * mrwoo (n=kurtis@ has left #touchbook
[23:06] <gregoiregentil> but I didn't want to have another ugly plastic part. I remember when I opened my N810 package last year, there were twenty parts, accessories (one for the car, one for the wall, one for ...)
[23:06] <gregoiregentil> I prefer something minimalistic. Apple-esque...
[23:06] <gregoiregentil> it's why the packaging is very simple and I prefer to be that way
[23:06] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:07] <gregoiregentil> Also, I want everything to be reusable. You have three magnets that you can use for something else potentially. It's about avoid wasting
[23:07] <hyc> makes sense
[23:08] <hyc> there's only so much warning you can do, inevitably they're going to get stuck together ;)
[23:11] * factor (n=factor@ip70-189-85-196.ok.ok.cox.net) has joined #touchbook
[23:13] <hyc> for anyone curious, I wrote a brief entry in my blog about my experiences with the TouchBook http://www.symas.com/blog/?p=140
[23:16] <adricnet> hyc: Nice! An interesting perspective, thanks!.
[23:17] <hyc> glad you liked it ;)
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[23:33] * Simeon_H (n=simeon@unaffiliated/darkhomsar/x-384240) has joined #touchbook
[23:34] <Simeon_H> gregoire, you rakin in the dough?
[23:36] <adricnet> That's neither salient nor polite, Simeon_H
[23:37] <Simeon_H> hey I just want to know how the company is doing
[23:37] <Simeon_H> and whether they are going to expand their base of operations
[23:37] <Simeon_H> and start shipping to australia with an australian power pack
[23:38] <adricnet> Ah, well that's a question. What voltage do y'all use down there?
[23:38] <Simeon_H> 240v
[23:38] <Simeon_H> I'm an electronics technician student
[23:38] <Simeon_H> I might be able to help
[23:39] <Simeon_H> is the power pack just a linear supply or an SMPS?
[23:39] <adricnet> an AC to DC transformer 120V AC to 5V DC, afaik
[23:40] <Simeon_H> oh
[23:40] <Simeon_H> how much current?
[23:40] <adricnet> US residential outlets are 110-120 V AC, again afaik
[23:40] <Simeon_H> yeah they are
[23:40] <Simeon_H> I know
[23:42] <Simeon_H> an SMPS would probably better
[23:42] <Simeon_H> you can plug them into any voltage
[23:43] <Simeon_H> and you'll get the same output voltage
[23:45] * hyc (n=hyc@ Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:48] <dpb> "the power adapter supports 100-240V, has the FCC, UL and CE certifications, and in the limit of available stock, we will try to accommodate, free of charge, a plug adapter"
[23:49] <dpb> for international orders
[23:50] * Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-173.phnet.fi) has joined #Touchbook
[23:50] <Simeon_H> yeah but what about the plug type
[23:50] <Simeon_H> I'd have to get a converter
[23:51] <dpb> Yeah.
[23:52] <Simeon_H> is it a store bought adapter?
[23:53] <Simeon_H> or are the schematics available?
[23:54] <dpb> No international orders has shipped yet.
[23:58] <ptelder> Simeon_H sounds like you'd only need a plug adapter - Amazon charges $3(US) for 'em.
[23:58] <Simeon_H> yeah
[23:58] <Simeon_H> does anyone know how many pre-orders there have been?
[23:59] <Simeon_H> so I can get some idea of how long it would take for an order to arrive

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