#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-08-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <pliny> I'm trying to follow along here. The dspbridge is falling over when it tries to make the node in /dev (or at least hook up to it), right? Could this be some sort of udev vs aufs thing?
[0:01] <gregoiregentil> good point but no
[0:02] <gregoiregentil> it's failing after
[0:02] <gregoiregentil> dmesg doesn't report any error
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[0:04] <hyc_tb> yes, prelink -u fixes pidgin
[0:05] <hyc_tb> but it's kind of a shame to lose the speedup. I wonder if pidgin 2.6.1 behaves any differently.
[0:06] <gregoiregentil> Very good catch. Painful story. I need to think
[0:06] <gregoiregentil> same story as fennec. argh...
[0:06] * DarKnight (i=DarKnigh@ Quit ()
[0:06] <gregoiregentil> OK, dsp works if I put all the DSP lib on first FAT partition
[0:08] <gregoiregentil> 3.4M, not too much
[0:08] <gregoiregentil> at least, it would be a good use of the lost 36M due to the geometry!
[0:09] <gregoiregentil> It's always possible to see good things in bad bugs!
[0:09] <hyc_tb> lol
[0:09] <hyc_tb> and I thought you were just leaving us room for more kernel images....
[0:09] <gregoiregentil> ;-)
[0:10] <gregoiregentil> OK. That should be fixable with an improved dspbridge-init script. I will do it tomorrow. Still have some other things to do tonight and it's late
[0:10] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: isn't there something like noexec on the partition where /lib is?
[0:11] <gregoiregentil> It's painful because I don't have the source code of dynreg.out
[0:11] * killring (n=killring@ Quit ()
[0:11] <gregoiregentil> so I don't know what this application is doing (mmap or whatever) which probably messes up with aufs
[0:11] <gregoiregentil> I would love to better understand so that I can ask on the aufs mailing list. the owner is quite responsive usually
[0:11] <Corsac> why is it necessary?
[0:12] <gregoiregentil> what is necessary?
[0:12] <gregoiregentil> to do dynreg.out?
[0:12] <gregoiregentil> it's the way to load code in the DSP through the shared memory allocated by kernel
[0:13] <hyc_tb> hmmmm, strace may show you the difference in behavior
[0:13] <adricnet> what kind of file? Or do we not know yet.
[0:13] <hyc_tb> I copied all of the /lib/dsp/*dll* files to /tmp
[0:13] <hyc_tb> that didn't help
[0:14] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: hmh ok, so it's TI code?
[0:14] <gregoiregentil> yes
[0:14] <Corsac> and they don't want to open it, I guess?
[0:14] <gregoiregentil> readelf -a dynreg.out doesn't report anything suspicious. But I'm not an expert
[0:14] <Corsac> (and don't beagleboard people have problem with it too?)
[0:14] <gregoiregentil> hyc_tb: you need to do it on first partition
[0:15] <Corsac> btw I mailed the qemu-omap3 googlegroup for my kernel panic with mmc, and they advised to use gdb
[0:15] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: nobody is crazy enough to have aufs + squashfs + DSP + (and also 3D engine) ;-)
[0:15] <Corsac> so I need to learn how to do that :)
[0:15] <hyc_tb> heh
[0:16] <hyc_tb> ok, going to shutdown and try again
[0:16] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: eheh :)
[0:16] * hyc_tb (n=hyc_tb@ Quit ("Powered by OE: www.openembedded.org")
[0:16] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: but then it's possible that it's just a bug in dynreg.out and TI people //might// be interested in fixing it
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[0:18] <gregoiregentil> yup. I could ask
[0:19] <gregoiregentil> Something like that (very dirty) should work: http://pastebin.com/d1009baa2
[0:20] <gregoiregentil> and on wiki, it should be /usr/bin/dynreg.out -r /tmp/1/dsp/pingdyn_3430.dll64P
[0:21] <pliny> Corsac: It has happened with beagleboard. Google finds some of thier IRC logs, none of them with an answer however :-(
[0:21] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: brrr :)
[0:22] <hyc_tb> yeah. I copied everything to /tmp/dsp, ping worked
[0:22] <Corsac> pliny: I'm on the #beagle chan too now, but as I can't run anything on the touchbook os it's kind-of useless :/
[0:22] <hyc_tb> after a reboot
[0:22] <gregoiregentil> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/DSP_video updated
[0:23] <hyc_tb> but I'm having a hard time believing it's dependent on all of those files
[0:23] <hyc_tb> perhaps only the base_img file. will try that next.
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> for pinging test, no, but when you will use the decoding, you will need all the files
[0:23] <gregoiregentil> I have tried ;-)
[0:24] <gregoiregentil> but please try, perhaps I didn't do it correctly
[0:24] <hyc_tb> more eyes, ;)
[0:28] <hyc_tb> ok. dynreg.out can run from anywhere
[0:29] <hyc_tb> but the file it loads only works from /tmp
[0:29] <hyc_tb> and ping.out can run from anywhere
[0:29] <gregoiregentil> when you say /tmp
[0:29] <gregoiregentil> you mean that it doesn't mean to be on the first partition?
[0:29] <hyc_tb> right
[0:29] <hyc_tb> it's on a tmpfs
[0:30] <hyc_tb> it just has to be on a reasonable non-aufs partition
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> yes.
[0:30] <Corsac> hmhm
[0:30] <Corsac> http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/26/nokia-following-booklet-3g-with-arm-based-smartbook-in-mid-2010/
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> so you can even improved my script
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> and no need to of using the first partition
[0:30] <gregoiregentil> even better!
[0:32] <dpb> ..who would want a Nokia smartbook?
[0:33] <Corsac> well, if it runs maemo???
[0:33] <Corsac> :)
[0:33] <dpb> One of the most horrible distros in the world.. <.<
[0:34] <Corsac> besides the closed bits, it works fine
[0:34] <dpb> If you look at the internals of maemo software, it's pretty easy to say it's full of crap.
[0:35] <Corsac> that's not really the place to discuss it, but I kind-of disagree
[0:35] <Corsac> well, at least, I don't see where you find that pile of crap :)
[0:35] <gregoiregentil> not perfect distro, but it's a nice open-source effort
[0:35] <Corsac> ok, meeting time, see ya people
[0:36] <gregoiregentil> Nokia is quite supportive of open source - not with Symbian ;-) but with Maemo. If you have good video on the Touch Book, I must admit that it's thanks to Nokia - they did the development of DSS2 which is very good code
[0:38] <hyc_tb> http://pastebin.com/m367c794d
[0:38] <hyc_tb> just do the mkdir / cp and it should be fine
[0:39] <gregoiregentil> you may want to do the cp in the script (like I did - see wiki). In any case, tmp is volatile and it should be done when the service starts
[0:39] <hyc> right
[0:39] <hyc> this was just for a quick test and to play with the individual paths
[0:40] <adricnet> I found the library that seems to be keeping nightly fennec from running: libhildonmime.so.0
[0:41] <hyc> gregoiregentil: mind if I edit this into the script on the wiki?
[0:45] <gregoiregentil> no. sure. you can do it
[0:46] <hyc> ok, updated
[0:46] <hyc> now I need to copy some video files back over
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[1:00] <hyc_tb> hmmm. turned on prelinking on pidgin again, and turned it off for /lib/libresolv.so.2
[1:00] <hyc_tb> and it still works
[1:02] <gregoiregentil> so it's just this file
[1:02] <hyc_tb> could be
[1:02] <gregoiregentil> I can add it to the exclude list of prelink
[1:02] <hyc_tb> see how it works for you... at this point i don't trust most things without a reboot
[1:05] <adricnet> night all, more fun tomorrow :)
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[1:11] <hyc_tb> ah. and I found that midori segfaults when prelinked, but prelink -u on /lib/libicudata.so.36 fixes that.
[1:11] <gregoiregentil> ouah...
[1:13] <hyc_tb> (ran it under gdb and saw a complaint about this library)
[1:14] <hyc_tb> hm. almost. it worked once. ????
[1:14] <hyc_tb> now it segfaults again
[1:14] <gregoiregentil> oops. It's an old version and I remembered that Koen told me that it was not working well
[1:14] <gregoiregentil> perhaps we should try to upgrade it
[1:15] <hyc_tb> I've already done an ipkg install to upgrade this one. the upgrade works perfectly until I prelink it :P
[1:15] <gregoiregentil> No surprise!
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[2:17] <adikt> hello
[2:18] <adikt> is anyone interested in working on games for the touch book?
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[2:20] <dpb> gregoiregentil: do you know you have a couple of news entries on the support page in the wrong order? :)
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[2:26] <fooq> in the changelog for 2009-08.b: "Rotation while a video is playing breaks the video. Will be fixed in 2009-08.b."
[2:27] <fooq> should it be "-08c" ?
[2:28] <fooq> and the next line states gnome-mplayer is working for rotation
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[7:26] <shiznebit> wow the devs seem really hard ar work to get this thing ready for everyone
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[7:46] <mrwoo> I can't wait to get my touchbook so I can start helping out
[7:47] <fooq> ack!
[7:47] <Corsac> ack!
[7:53] <jvs> arrrrrr!
[7:53] <jvs> I mean ack!
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[8:43] <Corsac> hey calex
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[9:15] <calex> hey corsac
[9:29] <fooq> yes, some already have theirs
[9:34] <Corsac> hyc_tb has one
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[9:56] <honk> did anyone test the battery life yet? while using wifi or playing movies? =)
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[10:14] <hyc> So far I've gotten 8 hours while editing / compiling / testing code.
[10:14] <hyc> fairly intensive use, really.
[10:17] <martinh> 8 before it died? or 8 before the battery meter read 0?
[10:17] <martinh> or, you just stopped at 8 and plugged it in?
[10:17] <martinh> and, relatedly, how does the performance of it feel compared to other netbooks?
[10:20] <hyc_tb> 8 and it died
[10:20] <hyc_tb> I have not used other netbooks
[10:20] <hyc_tb> the only thing I can compare it to are my other laptops
[10:21] <hyc_tb> running on an SD card is obviously slower
[10:22] <honk> wifi was disabled though, right? ^^
[10:22] <hyc_tb> but the desktop is responsive
[10:22] <hyc_tb> no, I was using wifi most of that time
[10:22] <hyc_tb> bluetooth was active too
[10:22] <honk> that's about as impressive as I imagined it to be ^^
[10:22] <honk> do want!
[10:23] <hyc_tb> it's a very nice piece of work.
[10:24] <hyc_tb> also this is currently on a kernel without all of the power management features enabled. battery life should get even better down the road.
[10:25] <gregoiregentil> Yes. This is correct. I expect a 15 to 20% increase of battery when everything will be optimized and polished
[10:26] <hyc_tb> hmmm. if it had a video out for a projector, I could leave my laptop at home when traveling to conferences...
[10:27] <hyc_tb> and no more worries about a seat with a power jack on long flights ;)
[10:27] <gregoiregentil> yes. I'm very frustrated not having the time to add the external video connector while designing the machine.
[10:28] <honk> http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Video-Card.html ;P
[10:30] <hyc> heh, there's always another solution. thanks honk.
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[10:31] <hyc> gregoiregentil: what was the length of time from initial design to first prototype?
[10:31] <Corsac> yeah, especially since usb video support has been merged in 2.6.30 or 31
[10:32] <zmj|Centrikle> Will the touchbook ever be found in retail stores?
[10:33] <Corsac> retails stores is a bit complicated imho, you have to find distributors, for all countries
[10:34] <Corsac> you have to be a bit big to negotiate etc.
[10:34] <zmj|Centrikle> well, ok
[10:34] <zmj|Centrikle> are there any reviews of the touchbook up yewt?
[10:35] <Corsac> yeah
[10:36] <zmj|Centrikle> ok, found some on the forums
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[10:37] <zmj|Centrikle> just surprised I hadn't found anything on Giz or Engadget
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[10:39] <honk> "Due to the limited size of the first batch, and because of the tough economic times, we want to reserve the first Touch Books to our paid pre-customers. Nevertheless, we expect to quickly have a set of units available for review." ;P
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[10:44] <Corsac> zmj|Centrikle: yeah, I meant user reviews
[10:45] <zmj|Centrikle> Corsac: yeah, I found them, and pics
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[10:50] <zmj|Centrikle> Does the touchbook use apt, yum, or pacman or anything of the sort?
[10:50] <gregoiregentil> ipkg
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[11:01] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: what is the default mail reader, btw?
[11:01] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: and is there some PIM apps?
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[13:16] <jkridner|work> OE has some that were originally done for the Zaurus.
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[14:00] <viridior> back
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[16:47] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[17:33] * shiznebit_ pokes the #touchbook
[17:34] <shiznebit_> does anyone know when in september orders are gonna be filled ?
[17:35] * viridior shakes head
[17:36] * shiznebit_ looks around aimlessly
[17:36] <shiznebit_> did you get one viridior
[17:36] <shiznebit_> ?
[17:36] <viridior> nope
[17:36] <shiznebit_> too bad
[17:37] <viridior> i play with my beagleboard in the meantime... waiting on the OpenPandora too :/
[17:37] <shiznebit_> btw there was some talk on here yesterday i believe about the DSP not being opensource
[17:37] <shiznebit_> is that true ?
[17:37] <viridior> yes, i dont think that it has changed... you can get the DSP bridge from TI's website
[17:38] <viridior> truthfully i haven't visited the site in a while, but i haven't heard otherwise
[17:38] <shiznebit_> well its as open as a mini-skirt
[17:39] <shiznebit_> is that the same status with the beagleboard ?
[17:40] <viridior> yes, TB/Pandora/BB all use effectively the same hardware... the cores are identical
[17:41] <shiznebit_> so the PowerVR and DSP are both closed source, any other hardware locked-down ?
[17:41] <viridior> BB is the most sparse, basically the core and a couple peripherals, TB is like the BB but more hardware added and a few things on USB, Pandora has almost everything integrated on the board
[17:41] <viridior> shiznebit_: thats about it, everything else should be open except maybe the bluetooth/802.11 drivers depending on who they went with
[17:42] <shiznebit_> ray-link
[17:42] <shiznebit_> h/o
[17:42] <viridior> ralinktech has drivers on their site, but i think there are open ones also
[17:43] <viridior> BT is a hit-or-miss for open drivers
[17:44] <viridior> im off to bed, another disappointing day :/
[17:44] <shiznebit_> so anychance TI would open the DSP code ?
[17:44] <viridior> doubt it
[17:44] <shiznebit_> can't see whats their to hide
[17:44] <shiznebit_> there*
[17:44] <viridior> trade secrets
[17:44] <viridior> i dont think its because they dont want the open source community to have it
[17:45] <viridior> embedded envs are getting really popular and everyone wants to play
[17:45] <viridior> TI has one of the best DSPs out there along with the ARMv7a Cortex core
[17:46] <viridior> i guess it might open up in a few years
[17:46] <shiznebit_> well it be nice if they atleast gave docs
[17:46] <viridior> thats not something TI is known for ;)
[17:46] <shiznebit_> heh
[17:46] <viridior> well, im out, see everyone tomorrow
[17:46] <shiznebit_> night
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[18:22] <bstag> :>
[18:35] * Hugh (n=hugh@pool-71-252-242-212.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) has joined #touchbook
[18:35] <Hugh> sob* cry* weep*
[18:35] <shiznebit_> ??
[18:35] <Hugh> i want mine
[18:35] <bstag> lol
[18:35] <Hugh> nif*
[18:35] <shiznebit_> ph
[18:36] <shiznebit_> keep crying
[18:36] <shiznebit_> they might form into a TB
[18:37] <bstag> hmm maybe i should try that
[19:26] <hyc> the open source rt2x00 drivers do not yet have rt3070 support. the driver from ralink's web site is used here, and it works fine.
[19:28] <hyc> TI is very good about DSP support, but you generally have to pay a fair bit to get access. Back when I first started programming TI DSPs in 2000 I seem to recall it was several hundred $$ to register as a developer. But that bought you a complete IDE, libraries, docs, and free tech support.
[19:28] <hyc> source code wasn't such a big deal, they provided some example code but I was mostly writing my own anyway.
[19:29] <hyc> they have very good support for their DSPs...
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[20:34] * adricnet grumbles about something or another.
[20:42] <Hugh> ?
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[21:32] <hyc_tb> skype on the roadmap huh. I wonder how ekiga will run on this
[21:32] <hyc_tb> I've been avoiding skype since they tend to abuse my network
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[21:51] <gregoiregentil1> Pidgin seems to work with new prelink
[21:52] <dpb> what about fennec?
[21:52] <gregoiregentil> I'm in touch with the project manager at mozilla
[21:53] <gregoiregentil> so I have the right contact to get fixes and better support
[22:01] <gregoiregentil> Very strange
[22:01] <gregoiregentil> the $DSP in the script makes it fail...
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[22:20] <Corsac> hey there
[22:20] <Corsac> coffee time
[22:21] * shtylman (n=shtylman@cpe-68-173-99-55.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #touchbook
[22:23] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw, I think some of your work UI-related might interest Xfce people (especially stuff like configuration)
[22:23] <gregoiregentil> I have a bunch of xfce patches
[22:24] <gregoiregentil> they have never been integrated
[22:24] <gregoiregentil> they are good people in the xfce community and they are ... - let's say - other people in this community!
[22:24] <gregoiregentil> I really think that some of them made sense
[22:26] <shiznebit_> i thought the touchbook uses xfce
[22:26] <gregoiregentil> yes, it is
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[22:43] <hyc_tb> yeah, I was pretty happy to see Xfce here
[22:43] <hyc_tb> I just switched from gnome to xfce on my ubuntu laptop recently
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[22:55] <dpb> How warm does the TB get?
[22:55] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[22:56] <gregoiregentil> On the keyboard side, it's the coldest device you can ever imagine
[22:56] <gregoiregentil> no heat at all
[22:56] <gregoiregentil> on the tablet side, the system gets hot on the right where the board is. cold on the left (where the battery is)
[22:57] <gregoiregentil> There has been no report of device iphone-like explosion ;-)
[22:57] <gregoiregentil> but we have not yet shipped 26 millions of Touch Books. Next month....
[22:59] <dpb> :)
[22:59] <dpb> Ok, good that the keyboard side is cold, can easily keep it on the lap :)
[23:00] <gregoiregentil> Oh yeahh
[23:00] <gregoiregentil> that's really striking to have a cold system on your laps
[23:00] * hyc1 (n=hyc@ Quit ("Leaving.")
[23:01] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: hmhm, community has kind-of changed these days
[23:01] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: packager are more present, benny left (or so)
[23:01] <Corsac> there's quite a lack of manpower, but some people joined recently for more apps/goodies (like Ali and the xfpm)
[23:02] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:03] <Meiz_n810> it wifi-powersave enabled in TBOS?
[23:04] <Meiz_n810> iwconfig wlan0 power 200u multicast or something
[23:04] <Meiz_n810> on Nokia n810 it really increases the battery life
[23:05] <gregoiregentil> No. But if I have the right command and it's still working, it would definitely makes sense
[23:06] <Corsac> afaiu tb kernel doesn't yet have power management features enabled
[23:06] <Corsac> but hyc_tb managed to get 8h (with both batteries I guess) with wifi and bluetooth on
[23:06] <gregoiregentil> Good/bad news: DSP is working but not with aufs even with modified dsp init script
[23:06] <Meiz_n810> normally n810 stays on for days when idle, but when powersave is off it takes 3 hours idle and battery is empty
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[23:08] <Meiz_n810> the batterylife is already good but 15hours in use'd be possible with wifi-powersave i think :)
[23:10] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: Aw, schade. Do you know which files are glitching it?
[23:11] <gregoiregentil> for DSP?
[23:12] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: I read on #beagle that TI people were so nice and open. Do you have a way to contact people there and talk about that issue?
[23:12] <Corsac> (there = TI)
[23:13] <gregoiregentil> Yes, I'm in touch with them
[23:14] <Corsac> are they as nice and shiny than #beagle people seem to say? :)
[23:14] <gregoiregentil> yes. they are nice
[23:14] <gregoiregentil> just complex because they are many teams and there are some competitive architecture for DSP
[23:15] <Corsac> and you have a innovative architecture :)
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