#touchbook IRC Log


IRC Log for 2009-08-24

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:14] <Corsac> jamesb_: maemo mapper works pretty fine (on n8x0), and there's a fork which works fine on GKT+
[0:18] <Corsac> http://mapper.tal.org/content.php/mapper:home/
[0:23] <jamesb_> I haven't tried maemo mapper yet but planning to
[0:24] <jamesb_> do you know, do exports from openstreetmap work for that? or where do you get map info?
[0:26] <jamesb_> oh. gee. I suppose that's what "OSM" stands for :-)
[0:26] <jamesb_> little slow on the uptake, here
[0:30] <Corsac> yeah, I think you can download exports but the easier way is to download directly from the device
[0:30] <Corsac> and put the stuff in the cache
[0:30] <Corsac> (so it definitely works bettery with an always-on connection :/)
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[1:04] <dpb> what speed is the sd-card that comes with the tb?
[1:06] <Corsac> hhm, let me check the logs
[1:12] <hyc> it's about 15MB/sec
[1:12] <hyc> pretty decent, really. I've ordered a Sandisk Extreme 30MB/sec card anyway.
[1:14] <hyc> well, I hit another disappointment - playing H.264 video from Hulu is too much for it. there doesn't seem to be any video acceleration in the mplayer they shipped.
[1:14] <Corsac> Don't know about Hulu
[1:15] <hyc> www.hulu.com currently it's US-only access
[1:15] <hyc> they stream a lot of old TV shows and a few current ones.
[1:15] <hyc> RTMP, flashvideo format
[1:16] <Corsac> ok
[1:16] <Corsac> did you try with apple trailer videos?
[1:16] <hyc> I'm going to try rebuilding ffmpeg first. sometimes converting it from flv container to standard mp4 container helps
[1:16] <hyc> no, haven't tried those. where?
[1:18] <hyc> I'm also having some problems with rtmpdump, it seems to freeze every 6MB or so. I should rewrite it in C instead of C++, it's trying to be far too clever.
[1:19] <Corsac> (might be 1080 though)
[1:19] <hyc> ah that would be pretty excessive
[1:19] <Corsac> website is at http://www.apple.com/trailers/
[1:20] <hyc> hm, gives you a choice small / medium / large/ HD
[1:20] <dpb> what resolution does Hulu use?
[1:21] <hyc> so I guess I could try something smaller...
[1:21] <hyc> hulu has a few choices as well
[1:21] <dpb> yeah, HD won't work atleast
[1:21] <hyc> I think their lowest rez is like 352x288
[1:21] <hyc> highest is around 720x480
[1:21] <dpb> and neither works?
[1:22] <hyc> I haven't tried the lower rez yet
[1:22] <hyc> but it's definitely too slow for high
[1:23] <dpb> That doesn't suprise me.
[1:24] <dpb> As the faq says, there is no accelerating yet. "there is still some software work to do so as to fully leverage the hardware"
[1:24] <hyc> yeah
[1:24] <hyc> there is also an omapfbplay program, but it just displays garbage
[1:25] <hyc> I think maybe it expects to run without an X server
[1:25] <hyc> you can easily see a pattern in the output - it's like the buffer config is wrong, wrong number of bitplanes or something
[1:26] * adricnet (n=adric@c-98-192-79-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[1:26] <dpb> or it might require the omapfb xorg driver..
[1:27] <hyc> pretty sure that's what it's using already. can check it again later
[1:28] <dpb> atleast the packages list doesn't list it, it doesn't even use "proper" xorg, it used kdrive-fbdev
[1:30] <dpb> but if that omapfbplay is already in the os, it probably should work.. :)
[1:30] <dpb> uuh, there's also midori
[1:30] <hyc> what's midori?
[1:30] <hyc> there seems to be a lot in this os that doesn't need to be
[1:31] <dpb> a webkit based browser
[1:31] <hyc> nautilus was installed - that's the gnome filemanager. but the desktop is Xfce
[1:31] <hyc> I only noticed it because I saw trackerd eating up all my CPU. when i tried to remove it it said nautilus depended on it.
[1:31] <hyc> and I was like WTF?
[1:32] <dpb> I want to get my device so I can make an alternative OS for it..
[1:32] <dpb> Maybe I should start with a beagleboard already.. hrmm.
[1:32] <hyc> heh. what direction you want to go with that?
[1:32] <hyc> yeah, not a bad idea
[1:32] <hyc> one of my colleagues has one of those
[1:32] <dpb> Planning to use the ARM Linux Internet Platform as the base
[1:33] <dpb> http://linux.onarm.com
[1:34] <Corsac> midori is imho better suited than firefox
[1:34] <Corsac> or fennec
[1:35] <Corsac> (I kind-of don't like gecko/mozilla stuff)
[1:35] <Corsac> midori (and webkit) are still a bit young, but work pretty fine in most cases
[1:35] <hyc> hmmm, they have an omap-friendly X.org too
[1:35] <hyc> yeah, I hear you. the mozilla code base totally sucks.
[1:36] <hyc> I've been hacking on it off and on since 2004
[1:36] <hyc> it's miserable...
[1:36] <hyc> there are open bug reports in their tracker from like 1998, with followups on to the present revision, and the bugs still not fixed.
[1:36] <hyc> totally a project out of control...
[1:37] <adricnet> there are mutterings on various sites that a properly preparded sdcard could boot debian/ubu on the TB. Has anyone worked on that yet?
[1:38] <hyc> not sure it's worth it yet. as I recall the debian arm binaries are armv4. nice and compatible, but slower.
[1:38] <dpb> hyc: there's also ready built images of ALIP for the beagleboard, I'd love to know how they work on the TB
[1:38] <hyc> well, I ordered two more SD cards. I can try something else out soon.
[1:38] * dpb nods
[1:38] <hyc> I backed up my current image onto a spare 4GB card today
[1:40] <hyc> I've also been running into a lot of odd crashes using their distro image. but now that I've installed OpenEmbedded on my laptop, I can rebuild just about everything, and the recompiled binaries generally work fine.
[1:41] <dpb> I dislike the OE build system quite much..
[1:41] <adricnet> hyc: That's good news.
[1:41] <hyc> dpb: yeah, it seems a bit over the top.
[1:41] <adricnet> Is there a guide to getting that set up on say, a Debian server?
[1:41] <hyc> but at this point, having already sat thru all the downloads and everything, it really does Just Work.
[1:42] <Corsac> wait for me receiving my touchbook and I'll gladly help writing an howto :)
[1:42] <hyc> adricnet - yes, I grabbed debs from somewhere and have it on my ubuntu laptop
[1:42] <hyc> 1 sec
[1:42] <adricnet> cool, ty
[1:42] <Corsac> (I think that should be posted on the wiki btw)
[1:42] <hyc> http://wiki.openembedded.org/index.php/OEandYourDistro
[1:43] <hyc> but... i *did* run into several glitches in the initial build - 4-5 of the packages' Makefiles had a space character somewhere in their version string.
[1:43] <hyc> somehow or another these didn't get properly escaped
[1:44] <hyc> and the Make would die because of some unterminated string
[1:44] <Corsac> ok, time to go to work :)
[1:44] <hyc> so i had to edit those and replace the space with something else (a dash in this case) and restart the build each time
[1:45] <hyc> so, first time out, it takes several hours and you have to watch it, you can't just let it run unattended.
[1:49] <adricnet> Yuck. Did you use the apt-gettab;e OE instructions, or just built it up?
[1:51] <hyc> apt-gettable
[1:51] <adricnet> hyc: Oh cool, my apt doesn't see openembedded-angstrom, did youj ust use common and minimal?
[1:52] <hyc> well ... what do you want to rebuild? I started with console-image
[1:52] <hyc> but that was too much and I got impatient
[1:52] <hyc> so I went to minimal-image
[1:53] <hyc> but even that was too much. I wanted to hack the wifi driver, so I just did "bitbake virtual/kernel" and went on from there.
[1:53] <hyc> strange. the alip-2 is using older glibc and kernel
[1:53] <hyc> newer BerkeleyDB
[1:54] <dpb> alip g3 is coming out soonish
[1:55] <hyc> hmmm. I thought xf86-video-fbdev is inherently non-accelerated?
[1:56] <dpb> Possible
[1:58] <hyc> ah, I see alip-3 is kernel 2.6.30
[1:58] <hyc> they're using mozilla nspr and nss, that seems like a mistake
[1:59] <hyc> ah, I see. xf86-video-omapfb 0.1.1
[2:00] <dpb> nspr/nss was needed by something, and it's better to depend on them rather than the whole xulrunner package
[2:00] <hyc> yeah true
[2:00] <hyc> but whatever they're using that depends on nss - better to port it to use openssl
[2:00] <hyc> and jettison all that mozilla cruft
[2:00] <dpb> I don't think it's anything important that is needed by default
[2:01] <hyc> likewise for the AI OS, they ship both gnutls and openssl. they should drop gnutls since it's still so massively broken.
[2:02] <hyc> I suppose all of these distros are "experimental" in some form or another, but when you're targeting embedded environments, better to stick with code that's known to work. like openssl...
[2:02] <hyc> I'm gonna have to look for that xf86-video-omapfb driver. could be good. the touchbook is using fbdev.
[2:03] <dpb> well ALIP is just meant for a base for distros, it's not really a "usable" distro itself
[2:06] <hyc> sure
[2:06] <hyc> so it should be no problem to cherrypick what I want out of it ;)
[2:07] <hyc> this is kinda cool now, I have my laptop setup as an ipkg repo for the touchbook.
[2:08] <hyc> every time I rebuild something i just do ipkg update and ipkg upgrade.
[2:09] <dpb> cool :)
[2:12] <hyc> wow. I just brought up midori
[2:23] <hyc> so, midori http://www.facebook.com : virtual size 140M, resident size 49M
[2:23] <hyc> firefox http://www.facebook.com 170 / 59M
[2:23] <hyc> and much slower scrolling
[2:23] <hyc> think I'm gonna switch
[2:29] <adricnet> I'm bitbaking nano. Is this going to take all night the first time?
[2:30] <hyc> like I said - it will probably fail on a few packages
[2:30] <hyc> yes, it would probably take all night if it went smoothly
[2:34] <hyc> why did you choose nano ?
[2:35] <adricnet> It was in the wiki doc and its a simple enough package. IT that works I might try for lynx next ;)
[2:35] <dpb> Maybe he likes colours on it or something..
[2:35] <hyc> lol
[3:30] <dpb> is that an OE feature that every module for the kernel is a separate package? or is that a TB thing?
[3:39] <Corsac> ipkg *builds* stuff?
[3:39] <Corsac> (I don't know OE, I thought it was binary packages?)
[3:41] <dpb> OE builds ipkg packages
[3:43] <Corsac> and what do you install, on the touchbook?
[3:43] <Corsac> binary stuff?>
[3:43] <Corsac> or you need to rebuilds everything?
[3:44] <dpb> you install binary stuff
[3:44] <dpb> (and if the binary stuff don't exist, you need to build the binaries first with the OE framework)
[3:46] <Corsac> yeah ok
[3:50] <hyc> dpb: probably an OE feature
[3:50] <hyc> the image they distribute only includes 3 kernel modules
[3:52] <hyc> omap1fb, pvrsrvkm, and rt3070sta. I presume the former 2 are both for the video. the latter is the wifi.
[3:52] <dpb> yep
[3:53] <hyc> and I still had problems using my fixed wifi driver with WPA-EAP on the original kernel. it only worked on my rebuilt kernel. even though I used the same oe recipe as they did.
[3:54] <hyc> but Gregoire is apparently already testing that, so since he hasn't said there were other problems, I assume it's going ok on their builds too...
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[9:46] <jamesb_> no announcement on september shipments yet (but the day is young...)
[9:47] <Corsac> here it's already old ;p
[9:47] <Corsac> Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:42:24 +0200
[9:47] * Hugh_ (n=hugh@pool-71-164-155-7.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[9:47] <Corsac> (I'm a bit late though)
[9:52] <asciiforever> it's not yet 8am california time
[9:52] <asciiforever> although i was checking for an email from AI hours ago
[10:04] * Corsac is refreshing INBOX again and again
[10:04] <Corsac> :)
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[10:12] <tshirtman> hello there
[10:13] <shiznebit> gregoaire aint here
[10:13] <tshirtman> I just looked at the order page (I had an interrested in the alwaysinnovationg touchbook a few month ago and wanted to see how it was going)
[10:13] <tshirtman> shiznebit: I don't know anybody here
[10:14] <Corsac> shiznebit: gregoire :)
[10:14] <tshirtman> he is the CEO?
[10:14] <shiznebit> its going as slow as molasses
[10:14] <tshirtman> ok
[10:15] <jvs> did anybody receive a mail concering the september batch yet?
[10:15] <Corsac> to early in the morning I guess :)
[10:15] <jvs> because...
[10:15] <jvs> before 24th...
[10:16] <jvs> it isn't before any longer
[10:16] <Corsac> well, maybe it has been sent and nobody on this chan is part of it
[10:20] <asciiforever> my preorder confirmation was on 3/10... i would be surprised to not be part of the september shipment
[10:22] <shiznebit> well good luck
[10:22] <shiznebit> i dont see why the mass production is taking so long
[10:29] <tshirtman> so no use to order now (from france)
[10:29] <tshirtman> ?
[10:32] <Corsac> things will settle down a bit
[10:32] <Corsac> but basically, the sooner your order, the sooner you'll get it
[10:32] <Corsac> only thing which will lower is the time between order and shipping
[10:33] <Corsac> which is not really important imho
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[11:02] <Corsac> calex: \o/
[11:02] <calex> hey :)
[11:11] * jamesb_ (n=james@user-11fa82d.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:51] <mturquette> asciiforever: mine was 3/9. no email yet.
[12:15] <asciiforever> mturquette: good to have company. :P
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[13:07] <tshirtman> Corsac: ok, thanks for the infos
[13:09] <jvs> well, let's hope
[13:14] * tshirtman is now known as tous
[13:14] * tous is now known as tshirtman
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[13:41] <aswin> any body got info from Always innovating on Sept shipping ?
[13:42] <Meizirkki> dunno, everyone's just asking about it :)
[13:42] <asciiforever> nothing here
[13:43] * aswin is now known as camper
[13:43] * camper is now known as aswin
[13:45] <aswin> Hmm too bad ;) .. I remember running into a review of the current shipment which was fairly exhaustive. The author has "Part1" and was writing
[13:45] <Corsac> I think as soon as someone has info, he'll tell :)
[13:45] <aswin> Part2 ... but i misplaced the link! .. anybody here knows ?
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[13:53] <aswin> Ok, i found it ;) http://innovatingtouch.com/index.php?page=15 .. anyway, hoping for some news on the Sept shipping!
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[15:40] <viridior> back, miss anything good?
[15:42] <asciiforever> negative
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[16:20] <adricnet> So, anybody wanna buy one?
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[16:27] <Corsac> you're selling yours?
[16:30] <shiznebit> really, how much ?
[16:30] <jdebay> how much? but wait if you order now, no shipping and handling lol
[16:31] <jdebay> Does anyone know how much the weight of the magnets?
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[16:32] <adricnet> Corsac: I'm having to consider it, looking at my bank statement, yes.
[16:33] <adricnet> We should chat off-channel if anyone is interested. I can't ask more than I paid AI and for you to cover shipping.
[16:33] <adricnet> I guess I could try and price it as famous, lol.
[16:33] <jdebay> what serial number?
[16:34] <adricnet> jdebay: Mine? I dunno, guess I can look. It's one on the fridge on Engadget (hence the joke about fame).
[16:34] <adricnet> Where is the serial no anyway?
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[16:50] <adricnet> Hmm. Various parts inside the shell have serials, including the display.
[16:51] <GUido-> anyone get their 8/24 emails yet?
[16:53] <jdebay> no no-email about the 8/24 list for September. Maybe he is like Santa and checking it twice, lol
[16:55] <GUido-> maybe
[16:56] <jdebay> I did download the manual it is 4 pages, so I will not have to read it when it get here.
[16:56] <adricnet> jdebay: the placemat is helpful :)
[16:59] <kec6227> Where was the manual? is it on the wiki?
[16:59] <adricnet> kec6227: : Yep, http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/download/UserManual-v1.0.pdf
[16:59] <kec6227> thanks!
[17:00] <jdebay> find it here: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[17:01] <kec6227> how many people here have recieved their touch books?
[17:01] <kec6227> until I saw the forums, I was starting to think it was a myth
[17:06] <adricnet> kec6227: It's been a long time since March. Lots of people were wodering.
[17:06] <kec6227> I assumed so, at least we are starting to see some updates
[17:16] <jvs> well, let's hope the best
[17:16] <jvs> I'm off to bed
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[17:47] <bstag_> <-- refreshes email again :>
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[19:51] <hyc_tb> heh, finally got freenode to talk to me
[19:51] <hyc_tb> it was timing out or something before
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[20:10] <kec6227> I could really go for an update right about now :)
[20:10] <jamesb_> yeah I don't have anything from [08:33] till now
[20:12] <kec6227> All their email responses I ever get are usually at like 1AM (EST) ... I assumed thats when updates get done
[20:12] <jamesb_> has anyone gotten the email about september that gregoire promised by today?
[20:13] <kec6227> Clearly, it was a lie - like the dinosaurs :)
[20:14] <jamesb_> from the site news page: "Wed August 19, 2009: August batches and pre-order status — by Gregoire Gentil
[20:14] <jamesb_> ...we have a much bigger batch scheduled for September. The customers selected for this September batch will receive an email before 8/24 notifying them and an announcement will be made on this page."
[20:14] <kec6227> I wonder if all pre-orders not made in september batch will make it next batch
[20:21] <jamesb_> from yesterday or so: [quote]:
[20:21] <jamesb_> [07:55] Meizirkki: if i order now, would i get one from September or October batch? (if anyone knows and is willing to tell me ;D )
[20:21] <jamesb_> [07:56] gregoiregentil: Order now, October batch
[20:24] <hyc> then it sounds like they're going to clear their entire backlog up to July pretty soon
[20:24] <jamesb_> which means.... something
[20:25] <jamesb_> (either big ramp-up in production... or not as many backorders as we all assume)
[20:26] <jamesb_> if they keep shipping at the rate of 5 or so a month (which appears to be their run rate for August), they've got a lot of upside opportunity, shall we say?
[20:26] <hyc> hmmm. It seems to me that only die hard geeks are aware of it
[20:26] <jamesb_> let's see -- 33 of us on the channel right now. if they double their rate to 10 in September, and double it again to 20 in October, they'll be all done!
[20:27] <hyc> heh
[20:27] <jamesb_> I know, I know -- cynicism will get me nowhere
[20:27] <hyc> it's an interesting angle on the merchandising model. way back in the 80s there were so many personal computers on the market, each with their own OS
[20:28] <jamesb_> gregoire is probably lurking in here somewhere... "ok, scratch that guy's name off the ship list..."
[20:28] <hyc> then we hit the commodity phase ... off the shelf hardware, mostly Microsoft OS but some other obscure choices available
[20:28] <jamesb_> (like MacOS, and Linux? :-) )
[20:29] <hyc> here again you have a custom piece of hardware, but open design, and open software, customized
[20:30] <hyc> will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
[20:30] <jamesb_> indeed
[20:30] <hyc> I'd like to see a return to the 80s in one respect - every computer came with BASIC and pretty much anyone who bought one eventually tried learning how to write at least a couple programs
[20:31] <jamesb_> I'm particularly intrigued where ChromeOS will take things
[20:31] <hyc> I think the whole "computers as blackbox appliances" thing has gone too far. we need more devices that invite you to program them.
[20:31] <jamesb_> so you want a return to BASIC?? :-O
[20:31] <hyc> NO!!!! :D
[20:32] <jamesb_> (just kidding, I know what you mean)
[20:32] <hyc> LOGO, for sure.
[20:32] <jamesb_> but I think that's more a matter of moving to mass market, than a change in the computers themselves
[20:33] <hyc> but what does mass market mean? that to me means buying/selling shrinkwrapped apps
[20:33] <jamesb_> e.g. the first 10 years of automobiles, everybody who owned one knew how to tinker
[20:33] <hyc> which is really what I'd like to get away from...
[20:33] <jamesb_> I don't think there's any shortage of opportunities to program current computers, regardless of platform
[20:34] <hyc> eh... there's certainly no shortage of computers
[20:34] <jamesb_> not quite sure what would constitute "inviting you to program" for you
[20:34] <hyc> but there's a shortage of attractive reasons to try.
[20:35] <jamesb_> that's an intereresting comment
[20:35] <hyc> like the monthly magazines that had new games to try typing in yourself
[20:35] <jamesb_> shortage of attractive reasons?? or attractive ways
[20:36] <hyc> these days if you get a computer with MS-Office on it and one or two other things, it's "complete" - why bother writing any code at all?
[20:36] <hyc> people have to wake up to the fact that not all good programmers work in Redmond, and there are far more creative things to do
[20:36] <jamesb_> again -- there's no shortage of sources for examples to program (have you heard of this thing called the world wide web? ;-) ) -- but there's a whole "mass market" of people who don't particularly want to, any more than I want to learn how to repair my car
[20:37] <hyc> I suppose so
[20:37] <hyc> I on the other hand have hooked up a diag port to my car's ECU, dumped it's memory, and reprogrammed it.
[20:37] <jamesb_> so what are you suggesting -- selling computers without any bundled software (and no ability to download, e.g. an proprietary OS), so buyers are *forced* to program it for themselves??
[20:37] <hyc> And that was hard work, and expensive to learn how to do.
[20:38] <jamesb_> well I hat to say it, sir, but you *are* a geek ;-)
[20:38] <hyc> lol
[20:39] * Disconnected.
[20:58] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[20:58] <jamesb_> hmmm -- just found this comment, on http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml:
[20:58] <jamesb_> If you're considering publishing channel logs, think it through. The freenode network is an interactive environment. Even on public channels, most users don't weigh their comments with the idea that they'll be enshrined in perpetuity. For that reason, few participants publish logs.
[20:58] <jamesb_>
[20:58] <jamesb_> If you're publishing logs on an ongoing basis, your channel topic should reflect that fact. Be sure to provide a way for users to make comments without logging, and get permission from the channel owners before you start. If you're thinking of "anonymizing" your logs (removing information that identifies the specific users), be aware that it's difficult to do it well—replies and general context often provide identifying information which
[20:58] <jamesb_> food for thought
[21:00] <bstag_> dosent matter to me personly. i am logging it for my own use with my main client anyways like most here i am sure.
[21:01] <adricnet> Nice to see everyone chatting here ...
[21:01] <bstag_> so the logs posted somewhere do not do me any good. i tihnk it was more of oa suggestion by the op and the tb guy
[21:03] <jamesb_> actually, it was my suggestion
[21:04] <jamesb_> seemed like a good idea at the time...
[21:06] <bstag_> yes i remember that
[21:06] <bstag_> i though hugh jumped on it
[21:09] <Hugh> yep, i was asked to by people unfortunate enough to not be able to get on the irc chnnel.
[21:11] <bstag_> and the software does not do any filtering
[21:11] <bstag_> the ones i found that did not look to be maintined anymore
[21:12] <bstag_> and i am not wanting to code my own.. <-- lazy
[21:12] <bstag_> plus it would have only been cool um 10 years ago :>
[21:12] <bstag_> or more
[21:15] <bstag_> hm wonder where gregoire is tonight :>
[21:15] * unhinged (n=Paul@user-160vspv.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #touchbook
[21:15] <bstag_> writing hundreds of emails :>
[21:22] * unhinged (n=Paul@user-160vspv.cable.mindspring.com) Quit ()
[21:26] <bstag_> brb
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[22:17] * gregoiregentil (n=gregoire@adsl-71-135-127-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:17] <gregoiregentil> Hello everybody
[22:17] <gregoiregentil> I have made a few announcements on the news page
[22:19] <GUido-> so how do we know our qual for rating?
[22:19] <GUido-> er form
[22:21] <bstag_> hmm so mayb ei should quit refreshing my inbox
[22:22] <GUido-> I'll be ticked if I ordered the first week of March but got passed over because "my qualifying form rating was too low"
[22:23] <GUido-> is that a 6 out of 10,20, 100?
[22:23] <gregoiregentil> it's the rating that you input on the qualifying page
[22:23] <gregoiregentil> https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/company/pre-order-shipment.htm
[22:23] <gregoiregentil> this page
[22:23] <bstag_> the 1-10 can i deal with beta software :>
[22:24] <gregoiregentil> I should adjust the news if it's not clear
[22:24] <GUido-> ah kk.
[22:24] <GUido-> did that so long ago, I forgot there was only 1 question
[22:25] <GUido-> I've calmed down now
[22:25] <bstag_> lol
[22:25] * jamesb__ (n=james@user-11fa82d.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #touchbook
[22:25] <GUido-> I think I put 8.. which is honest
[22:26] <bstag_> it was this one
[22:26] <bstag_> 1: You prefer very polished and finalized products.
[22:26] <bstag_> 5: You are neutral.
[22:26] <bstag_> 10: you like to participate in the development process and help improve new gadgets.
[22:26] <gregoiregentil> Good for you. You are above 7... I have added the link on the news page to avoid the confusion
[22:26] <gregoiregentil> Is the guy who has (or has not yet) installed the log bot there?
[22:26] <bstag_> which i could understand with the current state of the os. some one who wants a polished product needs to wait till well its polished
[22:26] <bstag_> im here
[22:26] <GUido-> yeah, as long as the thing turns on, and doesn't go berserk and try and eat my dog, I can deal with it
[22:27] <gregoiregentil> bstag_: that's correct
[22:27] <gregoiregentil> Guido-: You have the terminal and sudo -s. And the wiki. Everything you need...
[22:27] <bstag_> so i have the log for the last 2 days
[22:27] <gregoiregentil> OK. Thanks. How can I get them?
[22:27] <bstag_> well we can do this a couple ways
[22:27] <gregoiregentil> and How can I set up a bot on my server to log everything?
[22:28] <bstag_> ahh wewll here you go i can just give you that
[22:28] <bstag_> http://www.jibble.org/logbot/
[22:28] <bstag_> simple setup
[22:28] <bstag_> and works no extra features though
[22:28] <bstag_> and ti notifies you when you log into channel it is being logged
[22:29] <jamesb__> (just re-joining) gregoiregentil: that's good news -- and seems very fair
[22:29] <gregoiregentil> OK. sounds cool to me
[22:29] <bstag_> and if you need the last 2 days i can get it to you ftp. mega upload. http post what ever
[22:29] <bstag_> or set it up on a server on my side for you to pull
[22:29] <bstag_> what ever floats your boat
[22:30] <jamesb__> gregoiregentil: if/when you set up to log on AI site, maybe you can merge in earlier logs that bstag collected?
[22:30] <gregoiregentil> Yes. if I can get the last 2 days, that would be great. if you have it available on a URL, that would be great
[22:30] <gregoiregentil> jamesb_: that's the plan!
[22:30] <jamesb__> yes, I see
[22:30] <bstag_> i can get them somewhere for that
[22:30] <bstag_> give me a couple minues
[22:31] <jamesb__> yeah, it's all on www.workingonthat.com ;-)
[22:31] * jamesb_ (n=james@user-11fa82d.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[22:31] <jamesb__> (sorry gregoire -- in joke, from earlier this evening)
[22:32] <bstag_> lol
[22:32] <bstag_> eh had to come up with something thought is was obvious
[22:32] <gregoiregentil> no problem
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[21:32] -bstagLogBot- This channel is logged - http://www.workingonthat.com
[21:32] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[21:32] <bstag_> there we go
[21:32] <robclark_> ahh, when I add a "#!/bin/sh"
[21:32] <robclark_> and then dos2unix the file
[21:34] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[21:34] -bstagLogBot- This channel is logged - http://www.workingonthat.com
[21:34] <robclark_> hi TouchBook-LogBot ;-)
[21:35] <hyc_tb> I guess it's time to quit with the inane banter now that it's all going to be logged for posterity ;)
[21:35] <gregoiregentil> Yup!
[21:35] <bstag_> lol eeh our logo programing is important
[21:35] <gregoiregentil> working well now. Thanks bstag_ and robclark_
[21:35] <bstag_> ok going to shut down mine
[21:35] <gregoiregentil> I will merge 2009-08-24 in two hours and a half
[21:36] <robclark_> np gregoiregentil ... very strange about that run.sh...
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[21:36] * robclark (n=robclark@nat/ti/x-wjkjxcpgyfsgafro) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:36] * robclark_ is now known as robclark
[21:36] <bstag_> ok its shut down
[21:38] <hyc_tb> is omapfbplay supposed to work on the current code? it seems to have the wrong framebuffer / pixel format
[21:40] <gregoiregentil> it should work. but I've not tested it for a long time. Our patched mplayer does everything omapfbplay does
[21:40] <hyc_tb> also, I tried to use xf86-video-omapfb. it also seemed to get the screen geometry wrong. it only drew on the top half of the screen, and that was at quarter height, doubled.
[21:41] <hyc_tb> ok, then I'll ignore omapfbplay
[21:41] <gregoiregentil> not surprised. we spent a lot of time on X and everything. BTW, 2009-08.b brings a *critical* bug in our X
[21:41] <gregoiregentil> which is the cause of the very poor performance.
[21:41] <hyc_tb> ah, cool
[21:41] <gregoiregentil> on 2009-08.b, everything is very smooth even when you rotate the display
[21:42] <hyc_tb> looking forward to that. so, it will be on the latest 1.6.x Xserver?
[21:43] <gregoiregentil> still the same 1.6.1 we are using (we upgraded to 1.6.1) because of some strange bugs with xfce about the keyboard. Angstrom from Koen is still using 1.5.3 I think.
[21:45] <hyc_tb> yeah, that sounds familiar. I did an ipkg upgrade yesterday and it pulled down a lot of angstrom/beagleboard files which did not get along well with the rest of the image. had to reset the image...
[21:46] <gregoiregentil> oops! Yes, we used a lot Angstrom. I need to do a clean-up to have a different branch.
[21:50] <hyc_tb> yeah, would be nice to have a URL specific for the AI repo
[21:50] <gregoiregentil> Yes. In the middle of the endless todo list ;-)
[21:50] <hyc_tb> heh heh
[21:52] <hyc_tb> ok, other random questions - about this touchpad, can it emulate a scrollregion? e.g. moving up and down at the rightmost edge of the pad to scroll the current window
[21:52] <hyc_tb> I suppose it's of low value sinceyou can just drag around on by touching the screen...
[21:52] <gregoiregentil> Funny question. It's supposed to do in hardware but Cirque forgot to do it. You could do it yourself but it requires to solder a resistor
[21:53] <gregoiregentil> In next version, it will be enabled in hardware (meaning that the resistor will be there)
[21:53] <hyc_tb> ah. ok, that sounds like a new page for the wiki ;)
[21:53] <hyc_tb> at least a photo or two
[21:53] <gregoiregentil> It's probably not possible to do it in software because the current configuration is relative position (not absolute)
[21:54] <gregoiregentil> yup. Guess what? In the middle of the endless todo list ;-)
[21:54] <hyc_tb> yeah, figured it was relative-only
[21:55] <hyc_tb> is the 2009-8b release still using 2.6.29 kernel, or a later one?
[21:55] <gregoiregentil> same 2.6.29
[21:56] <robclark> gn all
[21:56] * robclark (n=robclark@ Quit ("be seeing you")
[21:56] <hyc_tb> have you had any reports of I/O timeouts with this wifi driver?
[21:57] <hyc_tb> I was trying to stream some flash videos using rtmpdump. it would lockup pretty consistently about 6MB in.
[21:58] <hyc_tb> but, it could just be a bug in the rtmpdump binary
[21:58] <hyc_tb> I found a few things that the source code was doing that resulted in infinite loops in the binary
[21:58] <gregoiregentil> No though I haven't stressed as much as I wanted
[22:00] <hyc_tb> so there are definitely bugs in g++, maybe ARM-specific or maybe just specific to this version
[22:01] <hyc_tb> (the first infinite loop was this: uint64_t i = *(uint64_t)data where data was a char *, unaligned.
[22:01] <hyc_tb> replacing with a memcpy fixed that
[22:02] <hyc_tb> after I got that sorted out then I discovered that mplayer was too slow to play 720x480 H264 video
[22:05] <gregoiregentil> it depends which kind of H264
[22:05] <hyc_tb> google turned up several of your old mailing list posts on the topic...
[22:06] <gregoiregentil> There is also the DSP that can really do this. I need to do a wiki page how to use the DSP and totem to play some video.
[22:06] <gregoiregentil> On the todo list but higher. I have a bunch of command line. If you start the DSP service, it could even work from the UI.
[22:07] <hyc_tb> ah, very cool. so it's already usable now
[22:08] <gregoiregentil> there are probably still some bugs. but yes, it's close from being usable
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[22:22] <Corsac> :(
[22:22] <Corsac> no AI mail, no september batch :(
[22:25] <Hugh> sigh
[22:27] <gregoiregentil> but news on the news page. We didn't send email but we explain how we will proceed. If you put rating 9 or 10 (as you are not in the US), you may have a chance for September according to the rule
[22:29] <hyc> oh, back to the WPA topic, in the driver os/linux/usb_main_dev.c there is an ifdef that alters the driver initialization. the comment implies it's for the benefit of NetworkManager
[22:29] <Corsac> yeha I already qualified my pre-order (at 10 I think)
[22:29] <hyc> i.e. there is an #ifdef NATIVE_WPA_SUPPLICANT_SUPPORT
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[22:35] <Corsac> (though I pre-order late july so I guess even internationnally there're quite a couple of pre-orders before me)
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[22:45] <hyc_tb> By the way, I am really loving the battery life on this
[22:46] <gregoiregentil> Cool. We still can do a little bit better
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[22:50] <hyc_tb> yeah, will be interesting to see how the power management stuff shapes up.
[22:51] <hyc_tb> apparently a lot of it is already in the mainline 2.6.31 repo
[22:53] * calex (n=alexandr@c-24-130-114-97.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #touchbook
[22:54] <Corsac> calex: :)
[22:55] <gregoiregentil> yes. We have a compiled version that works but not with DSS2. WOuld need more work to port all the patches. Koen has a working version (but not stable) on Beagleaboard I think
[22:56] <Corsac> gregoiregentil: btw, are all the kernel patches intented to be merged in mainline, or will there be a git tree containing tb branch?
[22:57] <hyc_g1> i may give that a try. (hey, right now I have more ARM systems in front of me than x86!)
[22:57] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: how will the 2009.08b release be made available? Image, opkg, update.sh ?
[22:58] <dpb> gregoiregentil: hrmm, I think I was too generic on answering the survey earlier, wasn't just thinking about the touchbook. I did a new survey that I gave more thought to, will that be noted, or will the first survey be the one used?
[22:59] * jvs (n=jvs@ Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:00] <gregoiregentil> corsac: intended to be pushed upstream - at least for the drivers (such as the accelerometer for instance) that make sense
[23:00] <gregoiregentil> dpb: it will be taken into account
[23:01] <dpb> thanks
[23:01] <gregoiregentil> adricnet: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Reinstall_OS
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[23:07] <Hugh> ...
[23:08] <adricnet> gregoiregentil: Ah, okay. So I'll back up my files and blast a new OS on , as soon as .. :)
[23:09] <hyc> out of curiosity, why does the SD card need to have that 255/63 geometry?
[23:10] <gregoiregentil> so that the OMAP ROM can find the x-loader on the MMC card
[23:10] <hyc> interesting. it's hardcoded, doesn't read the geometry off the media?
[23:11] <Corsac> mhmh
[23:11] * Corsac wonders
[23:11] <Corsac> would the n810 bootloader accept to boot the image?
[23:11] <gregoiregentil> hyc: hardcoded
[23:12] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: not sure to be honest
[23:12] <Corsac> that deserves a test :)
[23:12] <Corsac> though booting doesn't mean working
[23:12] <Corsac> n810 requires quite a bunch of drivers which have no reasons to be present on the TBOS
[23:12] <hyc> a shame, not the best use of space. I always use 256/32 on my SSDs; that gives me cylinders exactly 4MB in size
[23:13] <hyc> and makes my filesystems perfectly aligned with the flash erase blocks
[23:13] <Corsac> but as the n810 is beagleboard based too, might have a chance
[23:13] <gregoiregentil> hyc: yes. I was disappointed too
[23:13] <gregoiregentil> hyc: read the WARNING comment in the install-sd.sh script. Especially when you will use your own SD card
[23:14] <gregoiregentil> I don't know why sfdisk behaves differently from fdisk. I saw that it was not considering the first few blocks the exact same way as fdisk.
[23:14] <hyc> yes, I've already backed up my SD card onto another. fixed the partition table and then dd'ed the 2 main partitions over.
[23:15] <hyc> hmmm, that sounds like sfdisk wasn't getting raw access to the block device
[23:16] <gregoiregentil> The image can work with a FAT32+single ext3 SD organization (then you don't have squashfs or aufs). The root / is the second ext3 partition
[23:16] <dpb> Corsac: no, n810 isn't beagleboard based, n810 uses an older omap
[23:16] <dpb> Corsac: so the image wont work
[23:16] <hyc> I like the aufs layout, that's quite clever
[23:17] <Corsac> dpb: ha, good point
[23:17] <Corsac> dpb: n900 might :)
[23:17] <dpb> might, yeah
[23:17] <Corsac> (fsvo might :))
[23:18] <dpb> fsvo?
[23:18] <Corsac> ???for some value of???
[23:18] <gregoiregentil> hyc: aufs+squashfs is really cool to reset in a matter of second
[23:18] <hyc> yep, very cool
[23:19] <pliny> Has anyone tried running the image in qemu-omap? I'm thinking about trying to set it up as a weekend project...
[23:20] <Corsac> I don't have access to the image yet
[23:20] <Corsac> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/release/latest/ only has ai.version :(
[23:21] <Corsac> but /me is patient :)
[23:21] <dpb> Can the image run on a B-revision of the beagleboard? or does it have too little memory? (need to find a C-revision from the office somewhere...)
[23:21] <Corsac> dpb: running maemo on TB might be fun too, though I'm not really sure it's really adapted to a 9" screen
[23:21] <gregoiregentil> it will arrive very soon. Almost done with 2009-08.b (need to gzip and upload)
[23:22] <dpb> Corsac: I've run it on a ~20" screen. ;)
[23:22] <pliny> Ah. I didn;t try to d/l it yet. I'm at work ;-)
[23:22] <dpb> gregoiregentil: how many people does Always Innovating employ?
[23:23] <gregoiregentil> pliny: qemu, we did some experimentations but with a debian root image. it should work with our root image too. There is some info about qemu / omap and how to best compile a suitable kernel
[23:23] <gregoiregentil> dpb: confidential information. but it's a small structure (and if you count the developers of the open source community), it's a very very large structure ;-)
[23:24] <Corsac> dpb: 20" touchscreen? :)
[23:24] <dpb> Corsac: no, just a normal screen :)
[23:24] <Corsac> ok :)
[23:24] <dpb> gregoiregentil: ok :)
[23:25] <hyc> heh, I was curious about that too
[23:25] <pliny> gregoiregentil: I've been reading up on it. I'm interested in the loking at the ebook reader issue.
[23:25] <gregoiregentil> Thanks. That would be great. Definitely something you can do easily. It's user space issues
[23:26] <gregoiregentil> fbreader is probably a good application but it needs more polished UI
[23:27] <hyc> I remember trying an old release of fbreader on my G1 phone, it didn't work very well
[23:28] <pliny> gregoiregentil: That's what I was curious about. I posted to the forum asking what people thought needed improving.
[23:28] <gregoiregentil> I'm open to investigate any other application if there is anything better. I don't want to spoil it but we will have some interesting software stuff for ebook (independently of FBReader). But a little bit later
[23:29] <hyc> it occurs to me that I was using their java version, FBreaderJ which is more limited.
[23:30] <hyc> And in general, I really dislike java.... hm, mebbe I need to port their phone drivers over to the AI OS and run that on my phone instead of Android. ;)
[23:32] <dpb> gregoiregentil: is a beagleboard with 128MB ram too limited to run the TB image?
[23:32] <gregoiregentil> no. it's working
[23:33] <dpb> ok, thanks
[23:33] <hyc> damn. usually stuff I order from Newegg comes from a local warehouse in SoCal and gets here in 1 day. The two SD cards I ordered are coming from NJ, could take another week.
[23:33] <hyc> so much for having multiple SD cards to boot from...
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[23:36] <dpb> gregoiregentil: btw, I see the support/ page has a couple of "news" entries, shouldn't they be in the news page?
[23:38] <gregoiregentil> support page has more technical/support/OS -related news. The news has more customer/preorder/general info -related news.
[23:39] <dpb> ah, ok
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[23:50] <Hugh> hey gregoire, what was deleted off of the faqs page?
[23:52] <gregoiregentil> not sure to understand the question. which part(s) are you referring to?
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[23:55] <Hugh> my browser informs me whenever a website is added to or taken away from, and it just chimed to let me know hat something on the FAQS page had been deleted, but it wont tell me what. so, i thought i would ask you.
[23:57] <dpb> gregoiregentil: any estimate what time of the month the september and october shipments will start shipping? start? middle? end?
[23:57] <Hugh> it may have just been a glitch though.

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