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[8:34] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[8:35] <bstag_> ok well auto logger running
[8:40] <dpb> That url doesn't even work.
[8:42] <fooq> :)
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[8:51] <bstag_> lol
[8:51] <bstag_> let me work on that :>
[8:55] <Hugh_> whelp, ima go to work now, ill be home at five. if you got questions for me just message me and ill respond when i get home.
[9:07] * martinh__ is now known as martinh
[9:32] <gregoiregentil> Hugh_: Teapot is the same application as in the iPhone SDK. It's an example how to use 3D OpenGL ES as well as OpenAL. There is an entry on the wiki
[9:33] <gregoiregentil> dpb: no mailing list for the moment. Use forums, support, and IRC for the moment
[9:33] <Corsac> hey gregoire :)
[9:34] <gregoiregentil> Meizirkki: what's your question?
[9:34] <gregoiregentil> Corsac: Hello
[9:36] * Corsac activates his forum account
[9:38] <Meizirkki> gregoiregentil, i'd like to know how's the screen connected t othe mainboard?
[9:40] <Meizirkki> is the screen (cable?) soldered to the board, unic connector or something?
[9:40] <gregoiregentil> there is a cable going between the board to the screen
[9:41] <gregoiregentil> The cable is 12cm long as the screen connector is on the other side of the board
[9:42] <Meizirkki> okay thanks :)
[9:42] <GUido-> got your status update email ready to send out to us preorder people tomorrow? :)
[9:43] <gregoiregentil> Guido-: Working on it
[9:43] <GUido-> I think I can speak for all when I say we're all looking forward to it with much anticipation\
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[9:44] <Corsac> yeah
[9:45] <Corsac> well, I pre-orderer quite late so I'm not going to be in the first batches
[9:45] <Corsac> so I'm patient :/
[9:53] <Meizirkki> hmm, if i order now, how long will it approximately take before it will be shipped?
[9:53] <martinh> i preordered at the beginning of april and it looks like i'm not in the first batches.
[9:54] <Meizirkki> i guess the fisrst batches were really limited
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[9:55] <Meizirkki> if i order now, would i get one from September or October batch? (if anyone knows and is willing to tell me ;D )
[9:56] <gregoiregentil> Order now, October batch
[9:56] <kristianpaul> hi, where can i get more info about this project?
[9:56] <gregoiregentil> www.alwaysinnovating.com and wiki.alwaysinnovating.com
[9:56] <Meizirkki> gregoiregentil, alright thanks :)
[9:57] <kristianpaul> tks
[9:59] <kristianpaul> know i remeber, wow
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[10:12] <Corsac> :/
[10:14] <jamesb_> gregoiregentil: sorry to press, but does "september" = first week of sept, or sometime later in sept? (I only ask because I'm leaving on extended trip I wanted to take this on)
[10:15] <gregoiregentil> not the first week for sure
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[10:15] <jamesb_> ok, fair enough
[10:15] <jamesb_> I'll have something to look forward to coming back to :-)
[10:23] <jamesb_> I figure it's a tradeoff anyway -- the fun of getting an early unit vs. a later one with some of the kinks worked out
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[12:31] <hyc> I've been adding WPA fields to the network_dialog
[12:32] <Corsac> nice work
[12:32] <Corsac> and it works fine?
[12:32] <hyc> since there are so many input fields, I'm hiding them until a particular mode is selected
[12:32] <hyc> any thoughts on whether to hide them, or just disable them?
[12:33] <hyc> in the original dialog there's just a "key" field for WEP/WPA that gets enabled/disabled
[12:33] <hyc> yes, after I figured out that wpa_supplicant only works with OpenSSL, it works fine
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[12:34] <gregoiregentil> I still would like to keep something very simple in the UI. We may put an additional resource file for people with more complex WPA settings
[12:35] <Corsac> and start planning xfconf integration? :)
[12:36] <gregoiregentil> I have compiled xfce-4.6 on Openembedded but there was still some work to do so I stayed with xfce-4.4
[12:36] <Corsac> yeah, like I once said, the lack of menu editor may be a little problematic
[12:36] <Corsac> 4.8 is planned for spring 2010 and it might be a better option
[12:36] <gregoiregentil> hyc: if I remember correctly, for WPA-PSK, one password field is enough. It's only WPA-EAP which has more settings. Correct?
[13:33] <hyc> right
[13:34] <hyc> I'll get this finished up and post it for people to review. see if they like it or not. basically I'm copying the gnome nm-applet, but stripped down a bit more
[13:58] <Corsac> doesn't standard wifi-radar support WPA?
[14:08] <hyc> hmmm. my driver broke something. with the original driver the wifi radar works, with my patched driver I get nothing
[14:09] <gregoiregentil> yes
[14:09] <gregoiregentil> correct
[14:09] <gregoiregentil> I just noticed it. the card is not returned as before
[14:09] <gregoiregentil> you need to change /usr/bin/ai/network/detect_card.py
[14:10] <gregoiregentil> you should replace the os.popen by list = os.popen('find /sys/devices/platform/* -name wireless', 'r')
[14:12] <hyc> ah, cool, thanks. working...
[14:12] <hyc> odd that the driver behavior changes so much
[14:13] <gregoiregentil> yes. that worries me a little bit for just a WPA flag
[14:18] <Corsac> is the ralink driver supposed to be merged in mainline?
[14:19] <hyc> mainline kernel? they have the rt2x00 set of drivers, but their rt2800usb module doesn't have the init code that this 3070 needs
[14:20] <Corsac> but might include it at some point?
[14:20] <gregoiregentil> yes. you can add it manually
[14:21] <gregoiregentil> there are a few threads about it. As I mentioned on the forum, I tried that and it was working for non encrypted connections but failed for any WEP/WPA
[14:22] <Corsac> I guess it's not mature enough yet
[14:22] <gregoiregentil> Yes. I spoke with the maintainer. It's what he agreed
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[15:29] <DarKnight> any first impressions of the pdf reader? debating buying a kindle or waiting for my touchbook
[15:36] <jamesb_> pretty different animals, IMO. I got a kindle with the fantasy that I could use it for (very) limited web access & returned it, it was more than limited, it was useless
[15:37] <jamesb_> on the other hand, if all you want is to read pdfs, I don't know why you'd buy a tb
[15:49] <DarKnight> plan on getting a tb anyway, but if its not useful as a pdf reader, i'd get both
[16:06] <jamesb_> good point -- that's one my main expected uses for it too, so I'd be interested in first impressions on this as well
[16:13] <gregoiregentil> We will have some nice stuff for e-book reading but this will take some time. So if it's about reading tomorrow morning in the train, buy a kindle.
[16:31] <tromp> any of that nice stuff related to Pixel Qi?
[16:36] <gregoiregentil> no. I was thinking of software.
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[16:57] <hyc> ok, updated network gui is attached to bug#8 now
[17:00] <hyc> took a bit longer than it should for such a simple update; I'm not really a python programmer. but the language seems easy enough to pick up.
[17:36] <gregoiregentil> This is very nice work. I need to do more testing but it sounds very good to me.
[17:36] <gregoiregentil> Thanks
[17:47] <hyc> cool. (as a total aside, one of my colleagues here at Symas Corp. also has a BeagleBoard so we're both big fans of this project...)
[17:49] <hyc> if you plan to sell this into large enterprises and need a distributed authentication solution, let us know. I'm guessing right now it's aimed more at personal use.
[17:50] <gregoiregentil> yes. it's more personal use for the moment
[17:50] <gregoiregentil> Many thanks for your help
[17:53] <hyc> my pleasure. Gives me more to blog about in the meantime ;)
[17:54] * thirdhandinfo is writing about the touch book on his new blog
[17:54] <hyc> I remember what a tough time we had starting my company 10 years ago. I hope you guys are having a smoother ride than we did...
[17:57] <hyc> we had to sidetrack into several other bespoke projects to keep our main development funded. for one of those side projects I wrote a DSP audio driver for Xybernaut. that was followed by a speech recognition system. it's definitely a change of pace from programming large enterprise network databases.
[17:58] <martinh> python is ridiculously easy to learn. it's what I do for a living.
[17:59] <hyc> heh. I guess I agree with you now.
[17:59] <hyc> My first exposure to python was the original bittorrent client. That really turned me off.
[17:59] <hyc> the footprint was too huge, I was trying to run it in a dedicated host with only 64MB of RAM.
[18:00] <hyc> I switched to rtorrent, which actually ran very nicely on that box.
[18:01] <shiznebit> isn't Guido the one who created python ?
[18:01] <hyc> I must admit I'm a bit concerned about python and its footprint here too, I use C in all my work. For scripting I use Forth.
[18:03] <thirdhandinfo> python is an awesome language
[18:04] <thirdhandinfo> what's the weight of the touch book again?
[18:04] <hyc> just about 4 lbs with keyboard
[18:05] <shiznebit> WUTS ?
[18:05] <hyc> it's all on the web site and wiki
[18:05] <thirdhandinfo> hyc: thnx, i couldn't find it on the web site, then i remembered the wiki right after asking
[18:05] <jamesb_> http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Physical_dimensions
[18:06] <shiznebit> 1418g
[18:06] <hyc> ok, just over 3, not 4. my mistake
[18:06] <shiznebit> 1 lb too heavy
[18:06] <shiznebit> not much
[18:06] <thirdhandinfo> several people have complained that it's prone to falling over - i guess with the computer inside the screen it's a problem that is hard to avoid
[18:07] <hyc> yep
[18:07] <jamesb_> plus 6 oz for a/c adapter
[18:07] <hyc> eh, I wasn't even paying attention to that
[18:07] <jamesb_> but it does bring the total to an even 3 1/2
[18:07] <shiznebit> so total package is 3.5lbs
[18:07] <jamesb_> oh fine, go all decimal on me!
[18:08] <jamesb_> ;-)
[18:08] <shiznebit> my laptop is 6.5 lbs
[18:08] <shiznebit> we can definetly trim the weight
[18:08] <thirdhandinfo> lol, complain about decimals when you both use the b0rked imperial system
[18:08] <thirdhandinfo> ;)
[18:08] <jamesb_> my 6 hr old dell d400 is 3.4
[18:08] <shiznebit> ??
[18:08] <jamesb_> on the other hand, it didn't retail for $399
[18:08] <shiznebit> 6 hours of total FUC
[18:09] <shiznebit> FUD*
[18:09] <shiznebit> it was truthfully probably 4
[18:09] <shiznebit> anyone run a battery test yet ?
[18:10] <jamesb_> sorry make that 6 year old (typo)
[18:10] <hyc> i've thought about it, but not yet. for one, there's really no way to tell that the screen battery is fully charged.
[18:11] <hyc> so short of leaving it overnight to make sure it gets a full 8-9 hours of charge, not much to do.
[18:11] <shiznebit> well
[18:11] <hyc> and these past couple days I've been tinkering with it so much I've only slept for 4 hours :P
[18:11] <shiznebit> oh
[18:11] <shiznebit> so leaving in the wall socket is impossible ?
[18:12] <hyc> ? sure, I could leave it plugged in overnight at some point.
[18:12] <hyc> just that so far I haven't actually left it idle for more than 4-5 hours at a time.
[18:12] <shiznebit> heh
[18:13] <shiznebit> it be great if we could emulate the thing on x86
[18:13] <hyc> ah, you can.
[18:13] <shiznebit> but i have no clue on how to do it
[18:13] <shiznebit> ??
[18:13] <hyc> qemu already supports it
[18:14] <hyc> in fact, if you set up the openembedded build environment, qemu gets built as well
[18:14] <shiznebit> A8 ?
[18:14] <hyc> seems so. i haven't spent much time looking into it, but there's a lot of writeups on it.
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[18:22] <thirdhandinfo> gregoiregentil: do i have permission to copy and use pictures of the touch book from your website on my blog?
[18:24] <jamesb_> thirdhandinfo: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/company/press.htm
[18:25] <jamesb_> (I think that's implied permission, for those at least)
[18:25] <thirdhandinfo> heh, i have to start thinking of myself as part of the "press" :)
[18:25] <jamesb_> what's your blog?
[18:26] <thirdhandinfo> http://duppeditt.info/ - fairly useless if you don't understand norwegian though
[18:26] <jamesb_> that could be an issue :-)
[18:26] <thirdhandinfo> i've just started it
[18:26] <thirdhandinfo> i'm gonna write about various cool devices
[18:26] <thirdhandinfo> like the touch book
[18:27] <thirdhandinfo> "duppeditt" means "thingamabob" in norwegian :)
[18:29] <jamesb_> I like it -- "The Thingamabob, from Always Innovating ..."
[18:30] <jamesb_> might just catch on...
[18:30] <jamesb_> would definitely give more unique hits than "touchbook" ;-)
[18:32] <thirdhandinfo> heh
[18:34] <thirdhandinfo> i'm gonna write about other devices too
[18:36] <jdebay> Maybe have one show up in Wallander...
[18:45] <jdebay> Still waiting for my TB. Maybe tomorrow learn when in September it will be shipped.
[18:47] <thirdhandinfo> phew, finally finished and published a lengthy post about the TB, now i can finally go to bed (it's 1:47 am :P)
[18:53] <jamesb_> thirdhandinfo: nice (from the google translation: "From the small business start-ups Always Innovating there has recently been an innovative gizmo called Touch Book.")
[18:53] <thirdhandinfo> ty :)
[18:56] * thirdhandinfo chuckles at google translation of it
[18:56] <jamesb_> you've got to make up your mind -- is it a gizmo or a thingamabob?
[18:57] <jdebay> let's vote, I like thingamabob
[18:57] <thirdhandinfo> lol
[18:57] <thirdhandinfo> duppeditt = thingamabob
[18:57] <hyc> well... here's a bit of info. from when I woke up this morning till a minute ago, I've been using it continuously. The battery just now died.
[18:57] <thirdhandinfo> dings = gizmo
[18:58] <hyc> so that's a solid 8 hours, with some pretty intensive compiling and other tasks
[18:58] <thirdhandinfo> if i were going to write thingamabob all the time it would become a little tiring
[18:58] <thirdhandinfo> gizmo is much shorter to write ;)
[18:58] <hyc> and now I guess I have to leave it alone and let it recharge...
[18:58] <jamesb_> let us know the recharge cycle time
[18:58] <thirdhandinfo> but it's more fun as a website name
[18:59] <hyc> the instruction book says 9 hours to full charge
[18:59] <jamesb_> is that just first time?
[18:59] <hyc> hm, maybe
[18:59] <hyc> "before first use"
[18:59] <jamesb_> right...
[18:59] <hyc> ok, well, it's just about 5pm now
[19:00] <jamesb_> instructions said my cellphone needed overnight too
[19:00] <hyc> will see how it looks later tonight
[19:00] <thirdhandinfo> bah, google translates "duppeditt" as "gadgets"
[19:00] <hyc> the tablet only charges if it's powered on
[19:00] <jamesb_> yeah I saw that earlier -- v. strange
[19:00] <hyc> and that may slow down charging the base. we'll see.
[19:01] <jamesb_> gregoire made some comment about that being "like cellphones". but no cellphone I've ever had needed to be on to charge.
[19:02] <jamesb_> on the other hand -- so what
[19:02] <hyc> yeah
[19:02] <jamesb_> speaking of off & on -- just how "instant on" is it really?
[19:03] <hyc> hm, did you see the video I posted?
[19:03] <hyc> from poweron to usable session is pretty short
[19:03] <jamesb_> umm, I've looked at most of what I've seen mentioned here, but may have missed that one. at least not remembering
[19:03] <jamesb_> link again?
[19:04] <hyc> 1 sec
[19:04] <hyc> http://highlandsun.com/hyc/video-2009-08-21-22-10-48.3gp
[19:06] <jamesb_> yeah -- not bad
[19:07] <jdebay> like it.
[19:08] <jamesb_> though the site suggests that in typical use, you wouldn't be starting up each time: "Like a cellphone, it is always-on, so there is no need to reboot each time."
[19:08] <hyc> also, I tested the SD card they provided at 15MB/sec. I've just ordered a couple 30MB/sec Sandisk cards.
[19:08] <Hugh_> im back
[19:08] <jamesb_> is there an intermediate sleep or hibernate state?
[19:09] <hyc> I'm not totally sure. it seems like there is.
[19:09] <hyc> the screen will shut itself off when idle. sometimes it will wake up immediately with a keypress.
[19:09] <hyc> sometimes you have to hit the power button to wake it up
[19:09] <jamesb_> ok. that sounds like what it's referring to
[19:10] <hyc> but in both of those cases it is definitely instant-on.
[19:10] <jamesb_> in that case, what are we talking, a second or two?
[19:10] <jamesb_> yeah cool. so the question is, what is the power consumption in that mode?
[19:10] <hyc> not even a second. the display snaps on and it's running
[19:10] <hyc> no idea
[19:10] <jamesb_> it was a rhetorical question :-)
[19:11] <jamesb_> or maybe one for gregioregentil, who seems to have gone missing (packing boxes, we hope ;-) )
[19:11] <hyc> lol
[19:11] <jamesb_> but it reminds me of my Nokia N800
[19:11] <hyc> it probably wouldn't be too hard to disconnect the battery leads and put a meter inline with them
[19:12] <hyc> but i don't think I'm that curious yet ;)
[19:12] <thirdhandinfo> that's what's great about ARM devices
[19:12] <thirdhandinfo> i too have a N800, and i leave it always on, just like my mobile phone
[19:12] <jamesb_> understood. but if it's running 8+ hours full tilt, I'm guessing days in "standby" mode
[19:12] <jamesb_> exactly. just like a cellphone
[19:13] <thirdhandinfo> the N800 will last a couple of days if i don't use it much
[19:13] <jamesb_> yep, I can testify to that
[19:13] <hyc> yeah, it's pretty much like my cellphone too - it's a G1, so it's also ARM + Linux ;)
[19:13] <thirdhandinfo> then, when i need it - just unlock the screen :)
[19:14] <jamesb_> as god intended
[19:14] <hyc> which begs the question if anybody makes a USB GSM modem that will fit inside the TB case
[19:14] <jamesb_> not sure why that begs the question, but good question
[19:14] <hyc> then we could use it as a phone too. when you're not using VOIP...
[19:15] <jamesb_> I'm dreaming of GPS, myself
[19:15] <thirdhandinfo> yup, that's just how things *should* be, i'm amazed that it has taken this long for instant-on to become reality
[19:15] <hyc> it has taken this long thanks to Intel
[19:15] <thirdhandinfo> it's just so sensible
[19:15] <thirdhandinfo> yeah
[19:15] <jamesb_> any idea if theres a USB GPS that would work with this?
[19:15] <thirdhandinfo> down with intel, up with arm
[19:15] <hyc> haven't looked yet but I bet there are several
[19:15] <jamesb_> because that would be one sweet GPS unit!
[19:15] <thirdhandinfo> or up in arms :-P
[19:16] <hyc> yep, I was just thinking that ;)
[19:16] <thirdhandinfo> heh
[19:16] <jamesb_> complete with accelerometer, to keep map oriented the way you're facing!!
[19:16] <hyc> http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=usb+gps there are several that look nice and compact
[19:16] <thirdhandinfo> yeah! accelerometer ftw!
[19:16] <jamesb_> hmmm... guess that might require a compass too
[19:16] <hyc> yep
[19:17] <hyc> I would expect the GPS module to be able to determine direction too
[19:19] <hyc> yeah, "records time, date, location, speed, direction and altitude"
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[19:19] <hyc> I remember when we used to have to pay $300 or more just for an accelerometer. Which I used to test power and handling mods for my car...
[19:20] <hyc> now I can have an entire "flight data recorder" in this little touchbook
[19:21] <djbclark> gregoiregentil: maybe put www.alwaysinnovating.com and wiki.alwaysinnovating.com in the /topic ?
[19:22] <jamesb_> yeah but it determines direction of travel, if I'm not mistaken. not direction you're facing
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[19:23] <hyc> jamesb_: possibly. I would expect it to be able to do both, if it can receive at least two independent GPS signals
[19:24] <jamesb_> could be. whatever. I just want to see a 10" map!!!
[19:27] <shiznebit_> is there any project that uses open-maps and gives turn-by-turn directions ?
[19:37] <hyc> not sure how useful that is unless you're walking. at least in the US it's illegal to be watching a screen, or anything besides the road while you drive.
[19:37] <shiznebit_> hmm
[19:37] <jamesb_> actually I was thinking of walking
[19:37] <shiznebit_> that means all GPS systems are illegal
[19:37] <jamesb_> but surprised to hear that, what about all those mounted & built-in units?
[19:38] <shiznebit_> thats why i ask if there is anything that reads the directions turn-by-turn style
[19:38] <jamesb_> we may be veering off-topic
[19:38] <shiznebit_> there is no topic
[19:39] <hyc> well, you're not supposed to stare at them ;) they mount them higher up so they don't take your eyes too far off the road.
[19:39] <hyc> lol
[19:40] <hyc> too bad we don't have a nav system to guide us back on track. no, wait...
[19:40] <jdebay> i am here: Lat/Lon: 42.2° N 71.4° W
[19:41] <jdebay> my son is here: Lat/Lon: 48.4° N 11.8° E
[19:43] <jdebay> Hurricane Bill is here: Lat/Lon: 46.2 N 57.9 W
[19:45] <jdebay> my TB is here: 37°27′15″N 122°10′43″W
[19:46] <shiznebit_> my face
[19:46] <shiznebit_> 40.583474,-73.952283
[19:46] <hyc> heh. usb gsm modems are still pretty bulky. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12415
[19:47] <shiznebit_> break apart the plastic ?
[19:48] <hyc> ah, here are some better possibilities http://www.globalsources.com/manufacturers/GSM-Modem.html
[19:48] <hyc> but why do so many of them combine memory card slots?
[19:48] <jdebay> I have a bluetooth Wireless GPS by Delorme it is very small. Will see if I can get it working with TB. Works with my Palm T.
[19:48] <hyc> what a waste of space. just make a decent modem...
[19:48] <shiznebit_> hyc direct storage ?
[19:49] <shiznebit_> rather then going through ram/hub
[19:49] <hyc> it's a modem, what do you want it to store? copies of all your network traffic?
[19:49] <shiznebit_> maps ?
[19:49] <hyc> this is a modem, not a gps unit...
[19:49] <jamesb_> (mixing the gsm & gps threads)
[19:50] <hyc> eh, no big deal. I'll just have to figure out how to enable the ppp driver on my G1 and use tether it.
[19:50] <jamesb_> I think tethering is the way to go here. I don't see anyone using a TB as their primary mobile phone device ;-)
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[19:51] <hyc> velcro a webcam onto it and it'd make a helluva videophone
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[19:54] <jamesb_> or to heck with it, get one of these http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phone-and-smart/verizon-wireless-mifi-2200/4505-6448_7-33658722.html
[19:55] <hyc> hm... verizon's not exactly great for value for money
[19:55] <hyc> i have unlimited data with my T-mobile G1
[19:56] <jamesb_> but having mobile without tying it to a single device -- nice
[19:56] <jamesb_> and being able to share it with 4 other people -- even nicer
[19:56] <hyc> true
[19:57] <jamesb_> hmm... just noticed this:
[19:57] <jamesb_> ...The software roadmap towards release 1.0 will include the following:
[19:57] <jamesb_> * A Google-maps-based application with GPS support (GPS USB not included)
[19:57] <jamesb_> http://alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/info.htm
[19:57] <jamesb_> any signs of that in your unit?
[19:58] <jamesb_> I knew I wasn't hallucinating that idea...
[19:59] <hyc> no, nothing like that here
[19:59] <hyc> it'll take them some time just to generate a list of compatible USB devices
[19:59] <jamesb_> gps + googlemaps - cellular = not quite there
[20:00] <hyc> heh
[20:00] <jamesb_> IIRC google frowns on downloads of map data
[20:00] <hyc> well, any map app can cache a fair amount of data
[20:01] <jamesb_> at arbitrary zoom levels??
[20:01] <jamesb_> with smooth scrolling?
[20:01] <hyc> hmm, I dunno if they'd appreciate that or not ;)
[20:01] <jamesb_> my point...
[20:02] <hyc> seems kinda silly. last trip I was on, a bunch of us did the same thing - pan around the map while we were at a free hotspot, to prime the cache so we could wander around
[20:02] <jamesb_> and as I said, iirc, google terms of service
[20:03] <jamesb_> yeah that probably works reasonably well, and is probably legal, if your range is lmited
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[22:28] <Geep> jamesb_: See open street maps, and perhaps andnav on android phone
[22:29] <Geep> http://www.openstreetmap.org/
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[23:01] <jamesb_> actually shiznebit_ who asked -- but thx
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